T_Behr904

I thought up of an idea about possibly having a new cup machined from aluminum to replace the cheap metal cup that tends to fail on the De-K power rod rather than going the JB Weld route. I have exchanged e-mails with Aaron at NWP about this. He is currently doing R&D on other projects as most of us know, so I don't want to waste his time with my idea unless there would be enough people with De-K's or 4th gen guys with the 00-VI swap that would want something like this. I'm aware that a few of you have already done your JB Weld mods and probably wouldn't be interested, which is understood. Aaron also told me that machining an entire power rod would be too costly and probably would not be something that would happen. Even with enough interest with a power rod cup made by NWP, if he was to produce it, it probably wouldn't be for a little while since he's deep into R&D with other products right now. So, it's just an idea at the moment. There are no definite plans to produce this right at the moment, it's just a poll to gauge interest. Thanks everyone!

maxspeed96CT

iTrader: (9)

I have the jb weld mod on my list of things to do but never get around to it.

Speaking of 00vi , has anyone removed the power rob and just put a plate similar to the 3.5 guys?

I noticed one guy in the FI section did.

Im wondering if anyone else has, maybe the top end gains might be worth lossing alittle low end ?

T_Behr904

Someone here on the Org at one time was making BOP for the 00-VI, but you won't be able to use your cruise control unless I believe a Pathfinder throttle body is used.

You can remove the power rod and keep the VIAS actuator in place. It has to be removed from the other end of the intake manifold. However you want to remove the VIAS actuator first and take the metal cup off before you do so you don't risk the cup falling down inside the intake while extracting the power rod.

schmellyfart

iTrader: (46)

Yeah there's a handful of people running with a similar block off plate, myself included. Since I also have an extended rev limiter, I don't see myself reinstalling the power rod anytime soon.
Bad angle, but you can see the check valve where the vias assembly normally is as well as the corner of the plexiglass plate I used.


You have it mixed up. On the stock throttle body, you can use CC whether or not the VIAS is in place. On the Pathfinder throttle body (with stephenmax adapter plates IIRC), you can only use CC if the vias is removed.

T_Behr904

Oh ok, thanks for letting me know. I have a tendency to mix things up from time to time.

maxspeed96CT

iTrader: (9)

k I kind of see it, but why the check valve?

I thought all those vacuum lines that go to the Vias can be eliminated if you remove it?

BobPezz

iTrader: (5)

The problem with the VIAS cup as I saw it. Is that the the base is too thin to take the actuation torque, Brass being a soft metal wears out. It's just peened onto the shaft, compounding the problem by allowing rotational movement. If Nissan had soldered/welded it on the shaft, that would probably have prevented the failures. The best solution IMHO would be a thicker gauge Brass cup and/or flange at the base for solder/weld attachment. Since Aluminum is also soft, it would have the same wear issues as Brass, and can't be soldered/welded to a dissimilar metal (Brass actuator shaft). So another rigid attachment scheme would need to be devised i.e an adhesive like JB Weld. The JB Weld fix works, so why re-invent the wheel?

T_Behr904

I was just trying to think of another viable solution to fix the problem. With an upgraded cup, it should be a simple installation. I've been reluctant to use JB Weld for a few reasons...

1) I've never used it
2) It's permanent
3) If I screw it up, or get the cup alignment off, etc., I'll have to track down another cup, spring and power rod, or run without one.
4) I just don't like dealing with chemicals

Right now, this thread is to only see if my idea could gain enough interest to see if it's something worth NWP's time in pursuing. If not, then I'll either remove the power rod or attempt the JB Weld fix.

schmellyfart

iTrader: (46)

My car already had it before I installed the 00vi. It is connected to the pipe that runs halfway across the top of the intake manifold.

I did eliminate the vacuum lines the went to the vias. The vacuum lines that are still there are for the emissions solenoids and whatnot.

BobPezz

iTrader: (5)

I understand that. When you open up the VIAS actuator, you'll see there isn't much room in there for an alternate mounting method. It could be done with major modifications but it's probably not a simple/economical fix.

OK, I'll answer your questions and put your mind at ease re: JB Weld "fix"

1. JB Weld is just a Steel reinforced epoxy. If you've ever used epoxy you can use JB Weld.
2. Hopefully it is permanent, that's the point of the repair. But if something does go wrong it CAN be removed just like any other epoxy. Prior to cure; It can be wiped off for a 2nd try. After cure; Heat (JB Weld is good to 600F which is well below the melting point of Brass), Abrasives (grind it off with a Dremel), or enough Force to break the bond (chip it off). Granted, since JB Weld is a VERY strong epoxy it's a PITA.
3. Not true per the above. You'll have plenty of time to be sure the alignment is right, since JB Weld takes 24hrs. to fully cure (Recommended). The power rod stays in the IM during the "fix", and you don't have to JB Weld the spring in the cup. (I think the spring epoxied in the cup may decrease the bond surface area) All I did was compress the heck out of the spring (coil bound) in a vise 1st. And left it that way for the entire time it took to thoroughly clean the actuator/cup, do the repair, clean up the end of the power rod/actuator mounting surfaces, and wait 24hrs. for the JB Weld to cure. Shortened it up nicely, and you only need enough JB Weld on the bottom of the cup to just cover the actuator rod end (<1/16" approx. depth). After that point more epoxy isn't going to be much stronger (the surface area of the actuator rod is the limiting factor), be more prone to crack and could increase full cure time.
4. Believe it or not most epoxies are Organic Resins that catalyze to form polymerized bonds only when mixed/cured. Similar to blood clotting.

BobPezz

iTrader: (5)

T_Behr904,

I forgot to mention. Something unexpected came up and I had to use the car during the 24hr JB Weld cure. I plugged the vacuum lines and made a temporary block off plate from a big oval Styrofoam platter! It worked just fine and didn't even trigger an SES light.

T_Behr904

Styrofoam huh? That's cool

MoncefA33

iTrader: (6)

Delete it, raise the limiter to 7200, go about your day...

T_Behr904

How much would it cost me to raise it to 7,200? Let me rephrase that... What would I have to buy to raise it, and how much?

MoncefA33

iTrader: (6)

e-Manage Ultimate and a wideband. Total = $5-600ish. Also gives you full control over AFR and ignition timing, launch control blah blah blah...

T_Behr904

As enticing as that sounds, it's unfortunately not in the budget right now. Perhaps later on down the road.

schmellyfart

iTrader: (46)

Done and done.

Mr. Blue Sky

iTrader: (1)

this sounds like a good idea. what material would be best suited for the job? something not so soft, but also something that won't cause any reactions(between the metals, causing corrosion for example). Since mine is working fine at the moment, I wonder if I can solder the cup so it is permanently attached? if so, what solder can I use? hmm

BobPezz

iTrader: (5)

Since it's not broken yet, you have 2 choices. Do the JB Weld "fix" as a preventative measure, or plain old low temp plumbers solder/flux would probably work nicely. Just be careful, heat+plastic=melt!

BobPezz

iTrader: (5)

Necessity is the mother of invention my friend!

BobPezz

iTrader: (5)

Dude, get off the fence, open up the VIAS, do the JB Weld "fix", and be happy! Anyone with basic monkey skills can do this job. It's not rocket science!

BobPezz

iTrader: (5)

Would raising the rev limiter also raise the top speed governor (if it has one). My car shuts down (AT/OD off) at 6700RPM/135MPH, which thing is causing this? FYI; That's after doing the VIAS "fix". Before that it used to run out of breath after 5000RPM.

Nexus67

iTrader: (23)

Cef I had the same ?tion as maxspeed96, does deleting it sacrifice a significant amount of low end?

T_Behr904

If I deleted the power rod, I'd be more concerned with mid range torque, in the 2,500-3,500 rpm range (5 speed) while on the highway. It's not a big issue in the flat terrain where I live, however I would need torque for my road trips up in the hilly and mountainous areas. Some of those inclines are steep, with grades 20% on up.

schmellyfart

iTrader: (46)

No. RPM and speed are governed separately. The rev limit is controlled by the ECU telling the injectors to quit sending fuel at ~6500 rpm, no matter what the speed is. Whereas the top speed governor most likely relies on readings from the vehicle speed sensor.
I didn't feel any difference in normal driving.

BobPezz

iTrader: (5)

I haven't deleted the power rod so I can't say what the effects are. That being said, after doing the VIAS fix I noticed more low and high end power since now it's closing/opening fully vs. partially. Also a much more linear delivery of power across the entire RPM range. Not to mention better fuel mileage.

T_Behr904

I was wondering whether or not it could be partially open/closed. Makes sense that it can happen.

BobPezz

iTrader: (5)

So I might be able to get a bit more top speed. IF the car will still pull with OD turned on at approx 6500 RPM. Might be tough since the 4AT has some pretty tall OD gearing!

BobPezz

iTrader: (5)

Which is why I'm such a fan of the JB Weld fix. Simple and effective.

schmellyfart

iTrader: (46)

The beauty of this mod is that its completely reversible. You don't need a block off plate if you remove the power rod as the vias can still be bolted on without the power rod.

MoncefA33

iTrader: (6)

I didn't notice any. I shift around 2,000 RPM around town. The funzone is so much better though.

Nexus67

iTrader: (23)

You guys are seriously making me consider this. I always thought low-end would be diminished significantly so I didn't want to...now I'm on the fence b/c I think my 'cup' is failing. Car feels flat after 4500-5000 rpms

NiZMo1o1

iTrader: (45)

Altho my5th gen is my daily beater, I had the chances last month to check on the VIAS cup and YUPS mines was broken.

I also do R&D and for that little cup , I don't think it would be worth the time to NWP,

So I took one Sunday and took the power rod out, drove the car and it was a donkey ( dont have mods , just ypipe and intake )

end up JB weld the stupid cup and putting back the rod, I guess I waste my own time on that.

without extended rev limiter / headers and supporting mod, its a d o n k e y !

BobPezz

iTrader: (5)

As I said before, I noticed a big improvement. Probably because my car is an AT, maybe the MT cars don't suffer as much from a broken VIAS/power rod delete.

T_Behr904

So far the votes are 7-3 for the interest.

maxspeed96CT

iTrader: (9)

man i have to stop being so lazy and jb wled my shhhh.

BobPezz

iTrader: (5)

Yeah! It's NOT that bad a job and the longer you wait the worse it'll get. If Nissan had spent an extra $.01 to put some JB Weld in the cup at the factory, this discussion wouldn't exist.

T_Behr904

I did break 3 out of the 4 screws loose without stripping them. The 4th screw I will try to get done in the near future, since I'll need an extra pair of hands to rotate the throttle cable cams up and out of the way for me to get a clear straight shot at the screw.

Just out of curiosity, has anyone else used something different than JB Weld, such as some sort of superglue? It would be nice to find something that is as strong that doesn't take so long to dry and cure. I've used Gorilla super glue, and a friend used their two-part epoxy around the house which was incredibly strong. It bonds, aluminum, steel, ceramic, etc, and also expands and fills gaps to keep any air bubbles out. It sets in 5 minutes and is cured in 90 minutes.

BobPezz

iTrader: (5)

I just stuck a board on the gas pedal and used the seat to keep it WFO. That screw tends to be a BBuster. The main reason I went with Allen head replacements.
Some of the others tried JB Quick Weld, but had cracking/separation issues. Seems like the original 24hr cure JB Weld works best.

T_Behr904

Yeah I heard about that as well. I was brainstorming when I thought of the Gorilla glue 2 part epoxy. That stuff is no joke!