Maximus_95

iTrader: (8)

alright....
where do i start...
i just finished the swap tonight...actually...not quite.
first problem was when removing old spark plugs, i noticed some oil on them. I was a little skeptical about it, but cleaned it and moved on.
next thing i noticed, after the whole swap was done, there was some leak on the coolant piping....(Front of engine bay pass. side) no problem, resealed it, and nomore leak.
got all fluids in, finished the car, time to crank it up... It cranks, but motor will not turn over, so i thought maybe i forgot to hook something up and i noticed more coolant leak under the engine, right behind the A/C Compressor. That was the last straw....
I think they sold me a bad motor....what do you guys think?
Man, cant believe i have to do this all over again....
Worked countless hours with one of my friend and it was for nothing...
What a nightmare......
Thinking twice about doing the swap now...

nismology

iTrader: (8)

I empathize, but why two threads?


Anyway.. ...

The oil on spark plugs thing is a bad valve cover. No big deal. The coolant leak might possibly be a leaking water pump gasket. Do a compression test while you're cranking.

It's not time for a panic attack just yet.

MDeezy

iTrader: (27)

it can get frustrating at times. Maybe take a day away from it to just relax and then come back with a fresh mind.

Check all coolant lines in the area for a leak, maybe a clamp isnt on that tight, or there is a hole in line or something.

check all sensors, clean them if needed, test with a multimeter. Did you align the flywheel properly when re-installing?

Which oil pan are you using?
I second the compression test as well.

95BLKMAX

iTrader: (10)

I agree with nismology, I had the exact things you are having right now when I finished the swap. Coolant was leaking bet'n the block and timing cover, and the rear valve cover was leakin oil into my spark plug holes. Nothing to worry about just yet.

When I went back in to replace my head gaskets, I also changed the water pump seals (no more leak) and the rear valve cover (no more oil on the spark plugs).

Just get some rest man, you're frustrated right now cus of the long nite. Get some sleep, grab a beer, and think things through.

OK, Even with the situation you have right now with oil and coolant, this wont stop the engine from starting. Let me ask you, what TB are you using (if you had to rig up the TPS on the 3.5's TB make sure its within calibration, if its off enough it wont start). Did you make sure to make a good ground for the injector harness?

matts95max

iTrader: (11)

trust me your problems arent all that bad. haha atleast not compared to the nightmare of my first swap..which turned into like 3 different swaps til getting the good one I have now..all which would have worked fine on the first one if I wouldnt have over torqued some bolts. So you torqued them all to spec right? Dont stress yourself out over it, its really not worth it, its just a car man. Ive been there, done it, its not worth it. You'll get it working. Took me like a week and mdeezy like a month! haha your fine man just step away and relax and spend some time doing something else.

MDeezy

iTrader: (27)

Actually the TPS can be off, or even not plugged in and the car will still start, you'll have a very...interesting idle, but it will still start.

Good point with the injector ground. It needs to be relocated or re-grounded else where as the 3.5 doesnt have the same mounting place as the 3.0 did.


If it lined up the flywheel right the first time and plugged my Pathy TB sooner, I would have had the swap done in about a week and change. . . but naturally we over look certain things when working.

best thing to always do it take your time and dont overwork yourself, once you get tired, we naturally get a little lazier, and we might miss something we shouldnt have.

Maximus_95

iTrader: (8)

seems to me that the leak is coming from right behind the A/C Compressor plate.
when i cranked up the car, it wouldn't completely turn over, and i heard a pop sound from the engine bay when i thought it was going to turn.
i torqued everything to spec.
Flywheels was aligned properly.
one thing i might be a little concerned about is the crank position sensor.
someone told me that needed to be rewired and i re-wired it within the color of the wires.... is that wrong?

Maximus_95

iTrader: (8)

MDeezy, which ground are you talking about that needs to be re-located....? the front injector ground or rear?
for the front, my buddy grounded the wire to the negative of the battery terminal with a long wire. will that work?

MDeezy

iTrader: (27)

yea were held in by two 10mm on the 3.0 If you did ground them, then good.

Check for Spark, and fuel.

which oil pan did you use?

if you used the 3.0 oil pan, re-use your old sensor like normal
if you used the 3.5 oil pan you'd use the 3.5 sensor and re wire it in
if you used the 3.5 oil pan with the 3.0 sensor you have to grin 1/4" off.

Maximus_95

iTrader: (8)

yes, i used the old oil pan from my 3.0
which sensor are you talking about? the sensor that sits where?
whats the best way to check spark and fuel?

MDeezy

iTrader: (27)

the crank sensor that sits in the front of the tranny. check it see if its dirty,

many have various methods of checking for spark,

some take out the coil and put the spark plug in and ground it, crank and look at the plug for spark, a spark plug tester is another route.

for fuel you could put a fuel pressure gauge in line and see how much pressure is present.

Maximus_95

iTrader: (8)

ok, so sensor wise, im using the new crank position sensor from the 3.0 since someone told me to use that one.
but im using the 3.0 oil pan. does that matter? if it does, what happens when im using the old sensor?
ill test out the spark, and see if that is working.

nismology

iTrader: (8)

Either the water pump or the inner water pump seal is leaking.
Cranking and turning over are the same thing. Your description is confusing. So it's cranking but you heard a pop as it was going to start? Willing to bet it was an intake backfire. Is the fuel pump priming? The fuel pump ground is tied in with all the other sensors.
If you reused the 3.0 oil pan no rewiring needs to be done.

Maximus_95

iTrader: (8)

sorry for the mis-use of the word. when i said not turning over was meant as it would crank, but car would not start.

when the inner water pump seal is leaking or the water pump, what would be the easy way to replace the seal? taking out the motor? seems to barely bee any space...

when i re-wired the new sensor with my 3.0 oil pan, can this cause the car to not turn on?

sorry for so many questions, this is getting confusing to me now.

nismology

iTrader: (8)

Well for future reference and to prevent further confusion, cranking = turning over.
Nope. It would be like replacing the water pump. Here's a write-up.http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=308680
Which sensor are you using? The 3.0 or 3.5 sensor?


And again, is the fuel pump priming?

Maximus_95

iTrader: (8)

thanx for the link, ill def. check that out!

as far as right now, im using the 3.0 oil pan, and i re-wired the new crank position sensor (the one on the front of the tranny) with the 3.5 sensor.
so now i have the 3.0 pan with the 3.5 sensor.
will that cause the car not to turn on? or does that matter?

i got an adjustable FPR, along with a gauge, and im sure there is fuel being delivered. i see the gauge pressure go up to about 20-30 when cranking up the motor,then goes down.

thanx for the help nismology, hope im not bugging you in any way...

nismology

iTrader: (8)

I don't know if anybody has successfully used a 3.5 CPS with a 3.0 oil pan. People have used 3.0 CPS on a 3.5 oil pan though.
Alrighty then.


The next thing i would do is remove a spark plug and check for rhythmic spark while cranking. If it's erractic and random it's a sensor issue.

Maximus_95

iTrader: (8)

alright....then ill re-wire the CPS and try to crank it one more time after that.
then ill check out the sparks.

is there anything else i should know that might not cause the car to turn on?

GoalieKeg

iTrader: (4)

Hey Peter,

Check these:

A. CPS
B. Fuel Pump
C. Injector Wiring (backwards)
D. Timing Chain and Cam alignment

I suggest using your old 3.0 CPS, and make sure you have plenty of gas in the tank. Also, make sure you're getting enough fuel pressure into that FPR. What FPR are you using? Please don't tell me you're using an Ebay FPR...You're going to need some good fuel pressure (35+psi) to get the motor started the first time. I needed about 40psi to get mine started...

Maximus_95

iTrader: (8)

whats up dan! long time bro...
-right now im using the SARD Adjustable FPR, and im sure they are good.
well....if i do need that much fuel in there, i better adjust it higher then i guess.
-as far as Cam alignment, how am i supposed to check it? do you happen to have a link for that?
-injector wiring might be hooked up right, since they are all aligned in a way, if i would to put it wrong, wires wouldn't be long enough.
-ill re-wire the CPS to the 3.0 one... hopefully that'll work...

BrianV

iTrader: (9)

I am the friend helping Peter...(no im not BrianV, just using his account, hopefully he wont get upset)

A few things:
The fuel pressure when priming the fuel pump goes to about 10psi and falls back to zero rather quick. I would assume that the pressure would build with each priming and remain, but it goes to back to zero..Is this becuase of the return fuel system and the way the fpr is setup? The fpr is an adjustable Sard, and the fuel system is setup correct via the pics on here...

When I was cranking the car, there was no action besides the starter, after a few tries, I gave it a little gas, and the car barely came to life and started up only to sound like **** and die quickly, so im assuming its not cps or flywheel.

As far as all of the wiring:
Its a mess!!! There seems to be several unplugged wires, is there any extremly necessary wiring that has to be connected for the motor to start besides the obvious? (Injectors, spark, o2's, cps, oil are good) There seems to be leftover manifold wiring, and on the passenger side there are 2 green clips plugged into each valve cover. There are also a few female clips that are orange on the inside(they look like the injector clips)

If I had to guess I would say either the timing is off or the fuel isnt getting to the injectors properly.
Which brings me to my final question:

When we swapped timing componenets, we lined up the timing chain via the colors/arrows perfectly. We turned the crank and everything looked good, but we noticed that the colors never lined up with the arrows again, even after rotating the chain around several times. I realize the pulleys are different sizes but I thought they were supposed to line up again after a few cycles???? Regardless, the timing chain lined up perfectly when it was installed..

Also...the oil on the spark plug was not from the timing cover, it was on the spark plug threading. When Peter called the engine seller, he said that the altima had been in a roll over, and that perhaps oil leaked down?

Sorry for the huge post, but Peter and I have been working are ***'s off with this thing, and we really appreciate any help you guys can offer, thanks

Alex_V

As for your title, want to hear some bad luck? PM me...Your engine swap isn't even close...

~Alex

Maximus_95

iTrader: (8)

Hey, bad luck enough for me, dont know what happened to you... actually, im wondering now.... haha.

do you have any pointers since it seems like you've been through more than i have been right now?

95BLKMAX

iTrader: (10)

raise your fuel pressure like goalikeg said. he says he was about to start it with pressure around 40psi, just keep in mind these 3.5 injectors run on a constant FP of 51psi (no vaccum to the FPR is to be installed). Did you ever check for spark?

MDeezy

iTrader: (27)

the car will still start with low fuel pressure. it doenst take that much fuel to start it, but you would want to get it at 51psi for when your ready to drive the car normally and daily.

95BLKMAX

iTrader: (10)

Yea I agree, but he said that his FP was at 30s. Goalikeg said his engine didnt start until he turned it up to 40s. So Im just saying he should try that just to rule it out, on top of checking for spark which we have no results of as of yet

Maximus_95

iTrader: (8)

When priming the fuel pump, the pressure only goes to 10-20psi and drops back down to zero instantly. Is this normal?

nismology

iTrader: (8)

Nope. The pressure should stay high for a long time. Sounds like the FPR isn't holding the pressure. Are you sure you routed the fuel lines through it properly?

Maximus_95

iTrader: (8)

yes, im sure i did.....
the pressure acutally goes up while we crank the motor, but then it drops.
one question.... the sensor on front of the tranny, im keeping the 3.0 sensor along with the 3.0 oil pan correct?
what does these 2 have anything to do with each other?

Maximus_95

iTrader: (8)

alright guys.....
ive done everything right....
now started to crank the motor, but would not turn on.
took a look at the FPR, it goes up to 40-43 psi when cranking, then it goes back to 0 after we stop.

then car stopped cranking, all i hear is clicking....
thought it was the battery, took it to a local Autozone, they tested it, it came out its still a good battery.
thought it may be the starter, so took that off, took it to autozone again, they tested it, and it was fine, working properly....
what else could be the problem here?
now all i hear is clicking and no cranking anymore.....

matts95max

iTrader: (11)

check your grounds, same happened to me. just clicking. I ran the ground straight to the ground on the battery just to see if that was my problem and it was, because then it started right up

GoalieKeg

iTrader: (4)

He's running a grounding kit...he shouldn't be having a problem with ground.

He's now getting spark since I told him to change a few things, but now his motor won't crank. I told him to pull codes, and see if there's anything that sticks out.

915Max

iTrader: (6)

Check ALL your grounds... I ran a ground kit too and it still wasnt cranking, it would just click. The alternator ground/bracket was the one that was preventing my car from starting up-- It ran for a while; we turned it off, and then it would just click...

eng92

iTrader: (3)

The ecu has nothing to do with cranking. Two completely different circuits. You can unplug your ecu and the starter will still run.

The clicking you hear is the magnetic switch. Assuming he hasn't overheated his starter from all the cranking, it is either a power or grounding problem to the starterr.

Maximus_95

iTrader: (8)

can grounding really just go loosen even though i did not touch anything?

GoalieKeg

iTrader: (4)

Yes, I know that, but he still hasn't checked his codes yet.

Maximus_95

iTrader: (8)

alrighty...i have mangaged to put the alternator and check all grounds....
now it doesn't even clickclickclick anymore.... all i hear is 1 click and that's it....like the car is completely gone or something...

streetzlegend

iTrader: (8)

You said when you try cranking. fuel pressure goes to 40's then when you stop it drops back to 0? does it drop instantly? it is not supposed to go back to 0 that quick, if it does than thats probably a leak somewhere in your fuel system, like the injectors. It usually takes several minutes for the fuel pressure to drop to 0, sometimes even almost an hour.

Maximus_95

iTrader: (8)

yes, it drops to 0 within 2-3 seconds....im not sure whats up...
maybe fuel pump is bad? or maybe the fpr?
it doesn't even crank anymore....all i hear is one click, and i have no idea what it is... anyone know?

streetzlegend

iTrader: (8)

Oh dude, thats not good at all. Your having some problem with your fuel setup. you should NOT loose pressure so quick like that after turning off or stopping from trying to crank. Pressure should stay constant even after u turn off car and start to go down after a long time. I am not 100% sure what ur doing though, is this a 3.5 swap? or just 3.0 to 3.0 swap? either way, did you for any reason remove the injectors. if this is a 3.5swap, how did you setup your fuel system.