BobPezz

iTrader: (5)

Thanks again!

In an earlier post someone else suggested CAD might improve airflow. I wanted to explore that possibility. Since it appeared (in the raw data) that MAF value increased even with lower TP%/Load% values. Which may have indicated increased airflow/efficiency. But apparently (from your findings) the differential was negligible. Most likely due (as you say) to the cooler denser air.

sud123

I appreciate all the work you did for the CAD, but the title of this thread doesn't do much justice. IMO it would be a good idea to start a thread on "How to .... CAD mod" with reference to this tread. It would be great if you can post instructions and link to the part.

Rochester

iTrader: (3)

Or just ask NmexMAX if he would change the thread title. It's easier.

He's cool with stuff like that.

BobPezz

iTrader: (5)

I'll work on posting instructions, measurements and include a link to the part. It might take a little time but I'll try to get it done ASAP. As far as changing the thread name, "Rochester" gave an excellent solution. If the moderators deem it worthy of attention. How about "How To ..."Cool Air Diverter" Mod. (How I put a cheap plastic AutoZone scoop on my 2001 Maxima)"

BobPezz

iTrader: (5)

"Cool Air Diverter" - Fabrication and Mounting - "How To" (See CAD-FAB1 / CAD-FAB2 pictures below)

1. Here's the link to the "Cheap plastic AutoZone Scoop" used for the "Cool Air Diverter".
http://www.autozone.com/autozone/acc...ier=65672_0_0_

2. Fabrication Instructions;

A) Remove the "3M" Adhesive strips and metal grill "Hot Glued" to the inside of the scoop (with pliers).

B) Use Cutters I.E. "Aviation/Tin Snips", "Dremel Tool", or Saw (I DO NOT RECOMMEND using ANY kind of "Safety Knife", "Box Cutter" or "X-Acto Knife"). Cut the front portion of the scoop off (including the "Rolled" edge) at the "Top Front". File/Grind /Sand the "Top Front" of the scoop straight and smooth (round the edge). Use this as your starting point, to shape the scoop into the configuration in the (CAD-Fab1) picture using the approx. measurements given. (NOTE: The RIGHT side inside/outside curves are approx. 1/4" rad.) The LEFT side curve on the "CAD" was by "Trial and Error" (cutting/filing until the hood latch cleared). A simpler/easier way is the ALTERNATE CONFIGURATION indicated by the RED LINE. When finished with the shaping, drill clearance holes for #10 sheet metal screws as shown.

C) Finish by rounding off all edges and smoothing all surfaces (for safety/appearance), the "Cool Air Diverter" is fabricated and ready to be mounted!

3. Mounting Instructions;

A) Remove the OEM Snorkel fasteners and move it out of the way. Release the clips (with pliers) holding the wiring harness that runs under the radiator support, move the wiring harness down and out of the way. (To prevent damage from drilling/screwing into the harness)

B) Place the "CAD" as indicated in the (CAD-FAB2) picture, with the top edge even to the bottom of the angle on the radiator support. Use a "Sharpie" or other fine tip marker to mark where to drill (using the "CAD" holes as a template). Put the "CAD" somewhere safe and CAREFULLY drill 2 pilot holes for #10x1/2"L (recommend Stainless "Pan Head" Phillips) sheet metals screws (3/32" drill). (NOTE: It's easier if you have a "center punch" handy and punch the screw locations). CAREFULLY bend the bottom front of the radiator support outward toward the grill in the area where the "CAD" will be mounted. (Be sure not to twist/bow the support) Test fit the "CAD" but don't fully tighten the screws, it should sit at approx. 60 deg from vertical with a 1/4" space between the back/top of the grill and grill bar (It may need some adjustment). If it fits as stated, partially close the hood to the 1st. latch point and look underneath (with a flashlight). To be sure there's no interference when the hood's fully closed. (NOTE: The hood latch area is especially close/critical). IF nothing appears to hit, tighten the screws, GENTLY close the hood fully, and check for ANY binding/clearance issues (the hood should move up and down slightly). Open the hood and check the "CAD" and bottom of the hood for "rub marks", if everything looks good it's all set, if not rework the "CAD" to remove more material where it's hitting the hood etc. and repeat the clearance checks. (WARNING: Don't overlook the possibility of the hood NOT latching fully and opening at highway speeds!) Once on with no interference the "Cool Air Diverter" is mounted!

C) Finally, take some Vacuum Nipples/Hose sections and slide them on the exposed screw threads to protect the wiring harness from abrasion/perforation. Re-attach the wiring harness clips through the holes in the radiator support. Start with the clip closest to the battery and re-attach them from right to left (This could be the worst part of the job since the clips/harness can be VERY stubborn). Re-Mount the OEM Snorkel, make sure all the clips/screws/fasteners are on tight.....DONE!

Enjoy the "Cool Air Diverter" - Mod!

(CAD-FAB1)


(CAD-FAB2)

sud123

OP: These are very good instructions and well written. It will be nice if you can copy these instructions to the first post and ask "NmexMAX" to change the title.

BobPezz

iTrader: (5)

I just PM'd "NmexMAX" on this.

Tyler79

Agreed, i had my doubts before entering...

BobPezz

iTrader: (5)

I hope this isn't considered a cross post (sorry if it is). But I found NmexMAX's information (see underlined). VERY interesting, so I wanted to pass it on here.

Posted today in the thread - Let's be analytical - horsepower loss and long intake...

Today, 10:28 AM #16 NmexMAX
dot dot dot ...

2003 WV2 4AT




Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Espanola, NM
iTrader: (18)
Posts: 32,572


Quote:
Originally Posted by TunerMaxima3000
Yeah for sure ID is a relevant part, and of course, part of the calculations. For most of us though, BB intakes are not necessary or worth the hassle. The best setup for those of us not trying to pull every fractionof a second in the 1/4 mile is running that filter as close as possible to the corner of the engine bay, and getting as much cold air at the filter as possible to reduce ambient engine temps.

Although, for someone who will likely never track their car, I should admit that I've calculated the ideal length for my DE-K for my driving purposes, the available airflow, and entry angles so that when I make my CAI It'll be worth every pony I can pull out of it in the RPM ranges I want.

So I guess it makes sense to think about going 'all out' with the intake for some people...End Quote:

For that matter, the stock intake is fine. IMO, most usable part throttle power curve, supports up to 250whp in a 6MT 3.5L. I'm sure it's well capable of supporting 210-220 in a DEK, more than most (all why not) of us will ever need, all while being smooth and quiet.
__________________


03 SE 4AT 257whp/245wtq
95 SE 4AT 243k Miles


Items FS:
Raybestos ball joints
Progress rear springs
Last edited by NmexMAX; Today at 10:31 AM.

BobPezz

iTrader: (5)

I just ordered one of these to drop in the air-box. It should work great with the "Cool Air Diverter" - Mod.

Apexi Power Intake Panel 1989 2011 Nissan Maxima (VG30DE VQ30DE VQ35DE)

http://apexi-usa.com/shop/index.php/...ake-panel.html

As a side-note; During all the idle testing "FTL" runs, stop & go driving etc. I couldn't get a good impression if the "CAD" gave any fuel mileage benefits. However, over the past 2 weeks, it appears to have increased fuel economy. So far, under "normal" (for me) daily driving conditions I've gotten approx. 178 miles on 1/2 tank of gas (93 octane E10). Which is about 15-20 miles more than usual. I'm still using the cheap paper (restrictive) filter so the "new" filter should give even better results.

T_Behr904

Save your paper filter so if you get a chance to make it do a dyno shop, we can see what the gains would be.

BobPezz

iTrader: (5)

Good advice, after reading CMax03's description on how to thoroughly clean an Apexi filter I'll need the paper filter while the Apexi dries for a couple of days.

I doubt I'll ever dyno the car, unless it was a freebie. It's stone stock and what could I really expect to see, maybe 225BHP vs. the rated 222BHP? I do believe the "CAD" helps engine efficiency/driveability, by reducing losses due to heat soak. But not to the degree that you'll see amazing horsepower gains. Unless I was doing some radical mods to the car it's just not worth the $$$ for dyno time. I'm more intrigued by noticing, that since the "CAD"-Mod I seem to be getting better mileage in addition to driveability. Which in a way makes sense, because I'm using less throttle to get similar driving performance.

Nexus67

iTrader: (23)

^+1, definitely interested in seeing the results (even though I'm going to do the 'BPCAD' /BobPezzColdAirDiverter/ mod anyway)

T_Behr904

Maybe a few passes down a 1/4 mile track with each filter would be a good test. It at least should knock off a tenth or two.

BobPezz

iTrader: (5)

I forgot to mention! I went to the BLACK-JAPAN Annual End of Summer Meet in RI this weekend, rolled with my neighbor, and some of his buddies. Nice bunch of dudes, mostly Nissan and Subaru Techs from the dealership where my neighbor works. They're ALL into seriously modded turbo cars so I was a bit out of place with my stone stock NA Max, but they were cool and appreciated it for what it was. Anyway to make a long story short, my neighbor was telling one of the guys about my "CAD"-Mod, and he was interested in seeing it. Since he said they made a similar thing for NA versions of his car a Sentra SER Spec-V (he turboed). The guy thought it was a good idea for an NA car especially when I told him how much it lowered the inlet temps. So I guess it's not such a crazy idea after all! BTW; The unit for the Sentras are polished/anodized aluminum and run about $75 if I remember correctly. Aluminum would probably conduct lots of heat too. FAIL 2X price/performance!

Nexus67

iTrader: (23)

That's almost like some of those $100 polished oil catch cans that catch NO oil lol.

Can't wait to do this

BobPezz

iTrader: (5)

Nice thought, but I think there's too many variables involved (driver, track, etc.) What I will try is checking mileage/inlet temps with the Apexi filter to look for changes. I just like the idea of a less restrictive cleanable DRY filter. Just to eliminate the possibility of ruining my MAF with an over-oiled K&N. You can look inside the air-box and see the MAF right there, no more than 4"-5" from where the filter sits.

T_Behr904

The GTP i used to own had a maf sensor close to the filter as well. I did get a k&n panel filter for it. They do come with imo too much oil, so I took some paper towels and blotted the excess oil between each pleat on the front and the back. It worked well that way, never got any oil on my maf. However I did have to check it more regularly and would add a bit of oil to it every so often to keep it from getting too dry and not be able to filter. It was easy to blot too much oil from one spot and have it too oily on another spot, so it kinda was a p.i.t.a.

cleardaze

haha, I really shook my head just reading the headline for this post. I'm so glad I didn't see it sticking out on top of the hood. Way to be creative. If nothing else, it was worth the experience.

BobPezz

iTrader: (5)

What's stopping you $15 for the scoop and a few hours time? Don't you want to be the second guy to do the "Cool Air Diverter" - Mod? Best thing is, if you don't like it take it off and do a GAB, CAI or SRI. No harm done! I'd like to hear some feedback from others who've done a "CAD" - mod! Someone with an SRI concerned about heat soak. Could put the OEM snorkel back on with the "CAD"-mod, some flexi-duct to direct cool air to the SRI. See if it lowers the intake temp, without having to cut a hole in the fender or re-locate the battery. Same goes for those with a CAI. Getting the air from behind the grill is better than sucking up road debris from under the car.

BobPezz

iTrader: (5)

Yeah, believe it or not it's a serious discussion!

BobPezz

iTrader: (5)

Exactly my point! I want EASY maintenance. I'd probably be able to over-oil a K&N and ruin my MAF without even trying! BTW; I bought the APEXI on Amazon, for only $33.12 including shipping.

T_Behr904

The price of two over the counter paper filters with shipping included, can't beat that! And it should last a long time too.

TunerMaxima3000

iTrader: (4)

Rating is actually 222 HP @ the flywheel NOT BHP, which stands for BRAKE horsepower (measured at the wheels).

Stock DE-K's seem to run around 170 BHP from the factory, as a general guestimate, perhaps someone has a better number they could post? I'd be interested to know, but it's very hard to find a Bone Stock dyno on these cars, I've never seen one.


Good call on swapping your filter OP! And a good choice of filter.

Jrod2593

nice scoop but wat will happen if water would go thru it?

Nexus67

iTrader: (23)

The $15 is nothing, it's the time part. I definitely want (and will) do it, just gotta find a nice hole in the sched.

Besides...no one ever remembers the 2nd guy

BobPezz

iTrader: (5)

I stand corrected It's not BHP but: SAE NET HP (see below)
- In the United States, the term bhp fell into disuse in 1971-72, as automakers began to quote power in terms of SAE net horsepower in accord with SAE standard J1349. Like SAE gross and other brake horsepower protocols, SAE Net hp is measured at the engine's crankshaft, and so does not account for transmission losses. However, the SAE net power testing protocol calls for standard production-type belt-driven accessories, air cleaner, emission controls, exhaust system, and other power-consuming accessories. This produces ratings in closer alignment with the power produced by the engine as it is actually configured and sold. - SO the VQ30DE-K is rated at 222 SAE Net Hp. As stated before (using the correct Hp rating), what should I expect to see maybe 225 SAE Net Hp?

BobPezz

iTrader: (5)

The water trap in the OEM snorkel takes care of that just fine. (see posting #28)

BobPezz

iTrader: (5)

I understand. But remember, you'd be the 1st guy after the OP with the ***** to try it!

BobPezz

iTrader: (5)

That's what I figured!

saig

What about the tube right under the snorkel? If it is coolant coming back from the engine then it is hot and baking the air tube.

BobPezz

iTrader: (5)

It's true that the radiator return hose will be hot, but consider that the coolant is 190-240 degrees F (unless the car is overheating). The hose is rubber, a poor conductor of heat, you can hold the hose and not get scalded so it's relatively cool. If it were at coolant temp scalding would happen almost instantaneously, just as if you put your hand in boiling water. There's an air space between the inlet snorkel and the hose, air is a good heat insulator. The snorkel is made of plastic, also a poor conductor of heat. If you touch it it's not very warm and therefore the air isn't either. The Nissan engineers did an excellent job of figuring everything out with the OEM inlet system. The "Cool Air Diverter" - Mod is an enhancement to the good work Nissan did on the OEM system. It diverts the cool air behind the grill to the inlet snorkel area and (being made of plastic, a poor heat conductor) blocks the hot air in front of the radiator/condenser from the inlet snorkel area. A simple and effective way to lower inlet temps/heat-soak.

TunerMaxima3000

iTrader: (4)

Precisely.

Regarding your question on expected gains, I want to point out that you'll never use SAE HP again, it's a marketting thing so manufacturers can tell you the car makes more power than it really does.

In the real world of street car modding, you'll only use BHP readings.

Now, a widely accepted figure for power gain from air cooling is 1% for every 10 deg F of temperature drop.

If we averaged it out and said you dropped 7 deg F:

.7% of 170 is 2.7
.7% of 222 is 1.6

Sounds about right to me, I doubt you'd see more than a 2 BHP increase. While I like this idea, I have to say, there are much, much better ways to gain power without spending much money, especially on intake components.

Bassman.357

i like the mod, i just gotta question. at the top of the apeture on the scoop, even with the hood closed, it somewhat completes a channel for the air to travel into the air box. would it be a lil more efficient if there was a connecting piece between the scoop and the entrance of the airbox?

BobPezz

iTrader: (5)

Thanks for doing the math, I guess my "Butt Dyno" is pretty well calibrated. Not to be a "smartass" but BHP. is an error prone term as well (see below). I believe most guys use "Wheel Horsepower" - WHP. (Measured on a "Chassis Dyno") as the de facto standard. Anyway, to stay on point, I'm not looking for big HP gains, just ways to improve the efficiency/driveability of an already capable car. If it gives slightly better HP/MPG as a side benefit, that's just a bonus.

"Brake horsepower;
Brake horsepower (bhp) is the measure of an engine's horsepower before the loss in power caused by the gearbox, alternator, differential, water pump, and other auxiliary components such as power steering pump, muffled exhaust system, etc. Brake refers to a device which was used to load an engine and hold it at a desired RPM. During testing, the output torque and rotational speed were measured to determine the brake horsepower. Horsepower was originally measured and calculated by use of the indicator (a James Watt invention of the late 18th century), and later by means of a De Prony brake connected to the engine's output shaft. More recently, an engine dynamometer is used instead of a De Prony brake. Although the output delivered to the driving wheels is less than that obtainable at the engine's crankshaft, a chassis dynamometer gives an indication of an engine's 'real world' horsepower after losses in the drive train and gearbox. This gives an accurate indication of how a car engine will perform when used normally rather than ideal non-loaded circumstances."

BobPezz

iTrader: (5)

Not with the scoop I used, since it's narrower than the OEM snorkel. It could be done with something bigger. I'd just worry about a totally sealed configuration becoming a "RAM AIR" setup. And screw up the MAF/ECU calibrations. Because then airflow/pressure would change more, depending on the speed of the car. I try to use the "KISS - Keep It Simple Stupid" theory as often as possible!

Nexus67

iTrader: (23)

Do tell.

icukev

That's a cool cheap concept!

TunerMaxima3000

iTrader: (4)

Hmm good info, I always though BHP was the same as WHP, and I suppose it is NOW, but wasn't before? Hmmmm, well thanks for setting that straight !!

Nexus, you're joking right? GAB mod would be the first thing that comes to mind.

spock

iTrader: (5)

Might want to double check your math there, Matt.