what does an Immobilizer immobilize?
05-03-2006, 12:46 PM
#1
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what does an Immobilizer immobilize?
what exactly does the immobilizer immobilize? is it the fuel pump or ignition? basically whats going on is we're doing a 6speed conversion for a 5.5gen. Car cranks over but it doesnt start. Its the orginal automatic ECU, we did not change the ECU yet. thanks for any help.
05-03-2006, 01:10 PM
#2
Supposedly the fuel pump
"As the ignition is turned, the reader is activated and sends out a wireless signal to the transponder. The signal powers up the transponder's capacitor, allowing it to transmit its unique code back to the reader. The code is then sent to the control module, which compares it to the code stored in its memory. If the two codes match, and the appropriate additional security challenges are passed (depending upon the type of transponder featured in the immobilizer system), the control module enables the engine's computer or the fuel pump relays. If the codes do not match, an alarm indicator will show and the engine will not start, rendering the vehicle impossible to drive until the proper key is inserted for ignition."
http://www.ti.com/rfid/docs/news/new...06-01-99.shtml
"As the ignition is turned, the reader is activated and sends out a wireless signal to the transponder. The signal powers up the transponder's capacitor, allowing it to transmit its unique code back to the reader. The code is then sent to the control module, which compares it to the code stored in its memory. If the two codes match, and the appropriate additional security challenges are passed (depending upon the type of transponder featured in the immobilizer system), the control module enables the engine's computer or the fuel pump relays. If the codes do not match, an alarm indicator will show and the engine will not start, rendering the vehicle impossible to drive until the proper key is inserted for ignition."
http://www.ti.com/rfid/docs/news/new...06-01-99.shtml
05-03-2006, 02:02 PM
#5
Originally Posted by ColdSHO
it is the fuel pump, most cars are like that now-a-days.
05-03-2006, 08:15 PM
#7
you could just test for it
turn ur key to start; if you hear a lil sound like fuel goin to your injectors, you have fuel
test ur ignition by getting spark plug tester; then crank and look for spark
turn ur key to start; if you hear a lil sound like fuel goin to your injectors, you have fuel
test ur ignition by getting spark plug tester; then crank and look for spark
05-03-2006, 08:19 PM
#8
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Originally Posted by getbigtony
you could just test for it
turn ur key to start; if you hear a lil sound like fuel goin to your injectors, you have fuel
test ur ignition by getting spark plug tester; then crank and look for spark
turn ur key to start; if you hear a lil sound like fuel goin to your injectors, you have fuel
test ur ignition by getting spark plug tester; then crank and look for spark
we checked earlier, car cranks normal, there is fuel but no spark.
05-05-2006, 10:56 AM
#16
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Originally Posted by Hoooper
if its still the auto ecu the immobilizer shouldnt be a problem. the only change is the transmission as far as the computer is concerned so that almost has to be it
what does your second sentence mean? the transmission shouldnt affect if the car starts or not. Unless there is something special about this 6speed i am missing.
05-05-2006, 05:23 PM
#17
I would closely compare the crank position sensor ring gear, on the AT flexplate and the 6spd flywheel. Its not immobilizer related..... I've been there and done that, and told the people its not cost effective.
When all else fails I got dibs on the tranny :P
When all else fails I got dibs on the tranny :P
05-05-2006, 09:40 PM
#19
crank sensor reluctor wheel on the flywheel is diff on a 3.0L vs 3.5L. I have looked at 3.5L AT and 6spd flywheels and they looked different to my eye. I haven't swapped a 6spd in a 02 yet- nor I wanna so I dont know if there indeed is a diff. The reluctor wheel on the 3.5Ls does not detach from the flywheel like it does on a 3.0L. If it did it would make 6spd swaps into 3.0Ls much more eassier.
I want the 04 LSD tranny for my 3.0L because of its short gearing and better than 3.0L overdrive gears, for highway crusing. I sometimes find the gearing on my 3.0L too spread apart, with shorter gearing the car would be much faster I think.
EDIT- I wanna make myself clear that I mean that AT and 6spd flywheels looked diff to me just looking at the CKPS reluctor ring.
I want the 04 LSD tranny for my 3.0L because of its short gearing and better than 3.0L overdrive gears, for highway crusing. I sometimes find the gearing on my 3.0L too spread apart, with shorter gearing the car would be much faster I think.
EDIT- I wanna make myself clear that I mean that AT and 6spd flywheels looked diff to me just looking at the CKPS reluctor ring.
05-06-2006, 02:48 PM
#20
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Originally Posted by BlackBIRDVQ
crank sensor reluctor wheel on the flywheel is diff on a 3.0L vs 3.5L. I have looked at 3.5L AT and 6spd flywheels and they looked different to my eye. I haven't swapped a 6spd in a 02 yet- nor I wanna so I dont know if there indeed is a diff. The reluctor wheel on the 3.5Ls does not detach from the flywheel like it does on a 3.0L. If it did it would make 6spd swaps into 3.0Ls much more eassier.
I want the 04 LSD tranny for my 3.0L because of its short gearing and better than 3.0L overdrive gears, for highway crusing. I sometimes find the gearing on my 3.0L too spread apart, with shorter gearing the car would be much faster I think.
EDIT- I wanna make myself clear that I mean that AT and 6spd flywheels looked diff to me just looking at the CKPS reluctor ring.
I want the 04 LSD tranny for my 3.0L because of its short gearing and better than 3.0L overdrive gears, for highway crusing. I sometimes find the gearing on my 3.0L too spread apart, with shorter gearing the car would be much faster I think.
EDIT- I wanna make myself clear that I mean that AT and 6spd flywheels looked diff to me just looking at the CKPS reluctor ring.
humm thats intersting. I think we'll drop the trans first and go from there.
You swapped a 6speed into a 4th gen? thanks for all your help.
05-06-2006, 08:23 PM
#22
Originally Posted by Hoooper
i put the manual ECU in that box of stuff, maybe if you hook that up it will start.
05-06-2006, 08:25 PM
#23
Originally Posted by Puppetmaster
Its not that simple, you'll need a Consult-II and the NVIS/NATS software as well. The keys need to be registered with the ECU or NVIS/NATS won't allow the car to start.
isnt it past your bedtime?
05-06-2006, 10:44 PM
#25
I've put 6spd trannies in 4th and 5th gens in the past. Not as eassy as a 5spd swap due to the tranny mount and flywheel modification- which was handled by Jeff at Maximum Tunning a while back. I can modify the flywheel on my own now as I finally have the avalible equipment to do so.
05-07-2006, 11:49 AM
#26
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we're gonna drop the trans and compare the flywheel to the AT flex plate. hopefully it has something to do with that and we can finish this car. Got 3 other motor projects waiting.
05-07-2006, 01:15 PM
#28
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Originally Posted by Turbo95Max
ok wow....6speed conversion is DEFINETELY not worth doing......
vsamoylov could chime in but he is banned but on his car he is using the ecu as well as the imobilizer and the key from a 2k2 max. all 3 of them have to match. for security reasons he has 2 ignition locks on his car and 2 keys. the ignition lock on the steering wheel starts the car with a regular key. the second lock has the immobilizer on it. if the second key with the chip isnt in the lock and you try to start the car, all it does is crank and crank. once you stick the second key into the lock and the immobilizer recognizes it, the car starts right up. another thing you have to know after a couple of times of cranking the car with a wrong key, the immobilizer will send a signal to the ecu telling the ecu that its the wrong key. nissan designed that for security reasons like if somebody tries to steal the car and uses a different key to try to start it.
also the fuel part of it is there. there is no spark and that is why the car doesnt start. a consult 2 will be needed as well to program everything together.
05-07-2006, 01:37 PM
#29
I recommend you call Jeff at maximum tuning. If you're running a flywheel from a 5.5th gen with a 4th gen ecu, then you will need to modify the flywheel, but that wont make it run right anyways, but it will start barely... Just call jeff... i would have saved a lot of money if i went straight there. To modify the flywheel, you'll need to go to a machine shop...
05-07-2006, 07:45 PM
#30
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Originally Posted by maxS
just have to have a parts car.
vsamoylov could chime in but he is banned but on his car he is using the ecu as well as the imobilizer and the key from a 2k2 max. all 3 of them have to match. for security reasons he has 2 ignition locks on his car and 2 keys. the ignition lock on the steering wheel starts the car with a regular key. the second lock has the immobilizer on it. if the second key with the chip isnt in the lock and you try to start the car, all it does is crank and crank. once you stick the second key into the lock and the immobilizer recognizes it, the car starts right up. another thing you have to know after a couple of times of cranking the car with a wrong key, the immobilizer will send a signal to the ecu telling the ecu that its the wrong key. nissan designed that for security reasons like if somebody tries to steal the car and uses a different key to try to start it.
also the fuel part of it is there. there is no spark and that is why the car doesnt start. a consult 2 will be needed as well to program everything together.
vsamoylov could chime in but he is banned but on his car he is using the ecu as well as the imobilizer and the key from a 2k2 max. all 3 of them have to match. for security reasons he has 2 ignition locks on his car and 2 keys. the ignition lock on the steering wheel starts the car with a regular key. the second lock has the immobilizer on it. if the second key with the chip isnt in the lock and you try to start the car, all it does is crank and crank. once you stick the second key into the lock and the immobilizer recognizes it, the car starts right up. another thing you have to know after a couple of times of cranking the car with a wrong key, the immobilizer will send a signal to the ecu telling the ecu that its the wrong key. nissan designed that for security reasons like if somebody tries to steal the car and uses a different key to try to start it.
also the fuel part of it is there. there is no spark and that is why the car doesnt start. a consult 2 will be needed as well to program everything together.
i sent him a message before he got banned and he never responded. I gave up on that one awhile ago.
We didnt change the ECU, kept the stock auto one in, so i dont believe its the immobilizer....could it still be? we're dropping the tranny tomrorow and comparing so we'll see from there...hopefully its that.
05-08-2006, 02:37 AM
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