IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

http://www.350zfreak.com/plenum.htm
http://www.kinetixracing.com/

Just thinking here. We all know the VQ35 in the Maxima and the 350z share pretty much everything in common, but the intake manifold, ECU, and exhaust manifolds. Now, with the TS ECU and the HS headers, it's time to fix the intake manifold.

So, here's what I'm thinking. Most of you remember Ethan(emax95) tried putting a 350Z intake manifold on his VQ35, but determined it would probably fit, but the hood clearance was a problem. Some suspected the lower intake manifold needs to be swapped as well inorder to gain extra clearance. STILL UNKNOWN.

Now, if we can figure that out, then maybe SOMEBODY(not me~!) can approach Kinetix to see if they'd be interested in making these 350Z manifolds EXCEPT with a straight inlet vs. the curved almost 90-degree bend because our engine is transversely mounted.

Let's make it happen~!

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

No replies? WTF!?!

KLOOGY

iTrader: (12)

Thats because most peeps are and dont understand anything except intakes and what tailights to get......

Larrio

iTrader: (10)

what about us 3.0 guys

so much stuff out for the 3.5 I might switch over

Quicksilver

iTrader: (1)

Maybe there's a way to make it fit as is...

*don't use stock airbox

*relocate battery to trunk

*custom built intake piping w/maf-s and all that crapola installed

*true cold air intake down by the fogs

I guess the only question is hood clearance. And you'll have to splice some wiring and crap to get it to fit...

I'd need one to see if it would work. Even if it didn't, I could always sell to a 350Z guy...

EDIT--> I wonder if the bolt holes for that intake and our LIM are aligned properly, or would I have to buy a 350Z LIM as well...

DougJones

Sounds like a great idea. I'm in now way the guy to have an intelligent discussion on this topic with Kinetix though. What does the 350z lower manifold cost?

lv6speedmax

That would be awsome if someone would step up to the plate and try and get this done. We sure could use a new intake manifold. I would buy one in a heart beat if one came out for the max with little modification neccessary to install it.

Larrio

iTrader: (10)

hood clearance is the main issue because the intake manifold sits too high up, not allowing the hood to latch shut

emax was thinking about making a hood scoop to solve the problem

03BlkSETE

iTrader: (3)

This is definitely the next step in development for the 3.5. SSR was also seriously talking about and intake for us. They have a protoype for the 350Z. We could also contact CrawfordZ. Kinitex and SSR are in CA. Not sure where Crawford is.

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

Crawford won't work, because it's a factory manifold they chop up/modify, at least earlier version.

However, these Kinetix guys could EASILY change the mold or whatever is used to make that inlet part of the manifold so it goes STRAIGHT towards the drivers' fender, which could be turned and made into a TRUE cold-air intake.

Plastic or composite is a lot easier to change then the STOCK aluminum 350Z manifold. Plus, it doesn't transfer heat as well, so the air should stay cooler, like the 4th gen vs. 2K-2K1 manifolds.

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

You'd need the 350z lower intake manifold to clear the hood...at least that's what I'm hoping.

Wonder if DAVEB or someone can find a 350z LIM to compare against the Maxima LIM. That's the critical factor, because if that don't work, no need to contact Kinetix.

looslip

iTrader: (3)

We all know how cheap Maxima owners are.... I would love to have a new Intake manifold available for 3.5's but what kind of gains to the dollar are we talking here?

Galo

Before you all get horny after this piece, u need to understand why this piece does so much for the 350Zs, and that is because it fixes the problem of the stock Z manifold which actually restricts the airlflow into the front two cylinders.

If -because of its very different design and configuration- our manifold does not suffer from this intrinsic problem of starving a few of the cylinders, it's not clear at all that the 350Z manifold will yield any benefit whatsoever on our cars....

Does it have a larger throttle body than on our (well, your) 3.5 liter cars?

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

It's a known fact considering it's spelled out in a SAE tech doc the 350Z has a far superior IM design.

Now, if the STOCK 350z with its problem makes more HP and now the Kinetix makes EVEN MORE then the stock, what does that tell you?

It will really help the Maxima VQ35 breath, ie Kinetix > 350z stock > Max.

Larrio

iTrader: (10)

someone could try this and have custom intake piping fabricated to work

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

BEFORE all that, we need to find out the difference between the two VQ35s lower intake manifolds.

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

BEFORE all that, we need to find out the difference between the two VQ35s lower intake manifolds.

02MaximizedVQ

I would be internested in an intake manifold that makes more power. However our Maxima's do have a VIM, and it is supposed to promote a higher volume of airflow by closing the butterfly valve at RPMs over 4000. My question is, would a redesigned manifold make that much of a difference if it was engineered strictly for top end. If it did, that would mean the VIM on our cars was hardly effective, wouldn't it?

Jesse

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

According to the SAE tech doc, at least these 3-things were improved upon over the 2nd gen VQ35, ie 240hp Pathfinder.

1)Intake duct
2)Intake manifold
3)Intake port of cylinder head

1) improved airflow efficiency by 20% and reduced WOT intake resistance from 2700+rpm.

2) CAE modeling of two types of surge tank collectors were analyzed, single and double surge tank type. Double showed a lower airflow, then the single in the high-speed range. Based, on that, two surge tanks are used in the mid-range and then both tanks are connected together to form one large surge tank in the high speed range.

3) required a bump in compression to compensate for low tumble flow.

Yes a difference, worth $500, I don't know. From the SAE doc, the 350z double->single surge tank design wasn't engineered stricly for top end. It improved/reduced airflow resistance from as low as 2700rpm.

We know the IM on the Max is a cross, ie version 2.5, but from all the rest of the items it shares with the 350z, plus TS ECU and HS headers, there's not much left that's keeping NA Maximas out of the 240+whp stock 350z range even with their less efficient RWD drivetrain.

92 SE-R 02 SE

Nice find ICY..there are a few performance oriented 3.5 guys, i wonder what it would take to get them made for us? 3.5 altis, maxs would all benefit...has anyone got in contact with daveB?

02MaximizedVQ

I agree, we're slowly eliminating the variables between the two cars. Thats what interests me most about the IM...its the ONE thing we don't have access to yet.

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

EXACTLY, it could be a flop...we don't know until we try.

I think it's worth something to try, too bad Ethan isn't still around.

Y2K2Driver

iTrader: (1)

I would be interested in this. If it does work, it seems like it would be an easy to install mod, and that is always beneficial for warranty work.

MAXINXS

I do see a lot of potential here. If this was fabricated to fit our manifold, it is possible we could see some good size gains. You could build a NA beast. Then Ice, you would have to buy a 3.5! I am going to send Kinetix an email and see what they can do for us. Good find.

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

3.5? Just the 3.5L short block.

Make sure you state the Altima bretheren would also benefit from this.

DrVolkl

That's some serious fuzzy logic there...

Like it was said before, the kinetix makes more power because the stock intake on the Z is restrictive. The Z engine and the Max engine are tuned differently, and it's not just the intake...we're talking cams, timing, etc etc. You may not get more than a couple of HP if any by doing this, and you know no one will buy it without proven dyno's....

I'm not sure a stock Z plenum on a max engine would make any more power whatsoever. I don't think it's ever been shown. You may want to start there.

PhxBlue

iTrader: (2)

I this product was made and proven to be effective for our cars I will drop the money for one.

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

That's funny, because the cams, ie lift, size valves, heads, are the same. TS takes care of the ignition timing and fuel, so where do you get that again? Thin air?

That's right, you don't know. That's why someone needs to try. Otherwise, you and I, are just pulling numbers out our azz.

You're not sure? Hmmmmn. Sounds like fact to me. And the plenum isn't worth trying if it won't fit under the hood, since that would pretty much eliminate that as a mod for all but an extreme few, maybe.

I don't care if anybody buys it and it would have dynos *IF* somebody attempts it, so again mute point.

Care to contribute instead of being a negative Nancy?

Chinkzilla

what if someone made a hood like this:



maybe CF?


edit: yes... please excuse the crappy lazy photochop.

03BlkSETE

iTrader: (3)

Tilleys99 is selling his intake manifold (upper and lower). Would this be worth sending to Kinetix or do you think they need a test car?

http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=295770

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

I'm working on getting a 350z LIM, you interested in being a guinea pig?

DrVolkl

I'm not trying to be a "Negative Nancy"... I didn't realize you had all these FACTS. I personally don't remember seeing any dyno numbers that said a 350Z plenum made any HP on a 3.5l maxima engine. I think that if this is the case, Kinetix would be more than happy to make a plenum, if you can show support here.

I was ASSUMING you had no hard #'s, and was simply trying to get you to understand that it would be helpful if you had someone simply bolt on a 350Z plenum and take a dyno...show the gains are there, then ask Kinetix to make one.

Having been a part of this board for 2 years, I've seen how picky owners are about dyno sheets....we all know which products are being bought and which aren't, so a company like Kinetix might not want to take a risk and sink $$ into a project that might not net them anything. They're doing just fine making parts for the Z...you may have to convince them there's a market here.

Personally with the attitude you've shown me, with your snappy remarks, would not make me very confident in working with you.

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

Like I said, you don't know, I don't know, so until somebody tries it and gets a dyno, there's no POINT to your negative Nacy post. Why bother?

Most likely, it will never happen anyways, just discussion to spark interest in another POSSIBLE mod, incase someone has the ***** to try and follow through.

Working with who? I guess you can't take what you dish huh? Go play with your beautiful 350z...no need to worry about a Maxima VQ35 spanking ya anytime soon.

DrVolkl

I didn't realize I was dishing anything out...

I would like to point out that I have a kinetix on order and would be willing to let someone borrow my stock Z plenum to do a dyno if someone would like to PROVE something, but since you have all the facts, just go get it done your way and I apologize for being so negative. Best of luck to ya.

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

Thanks for the "generous" offer.

If you had paid more attention to the thread vs. being a negative Nancy, you'd have understood the LOWER intake manifold is what we need NOT the upper. The upper are easy to come by, lower isn't.

Thanks for playing, but try again next time.

MaximaMan77

Ok here’s my thought. I have a buddy and org member that traded in his 02 Max last month and got a 04 G35c. I’ve already got him thinking about getting this IM. I’m sure I’ll be able to go for this his only problem is cash right now. We’ve already put a Z tube and Jet pop on it along with the Bolora cat back. (Quick side note last Friday his car showed all the signs of a dead MAF. When I pulled the sensor out it had a small piece of debris stuck in there. After getting it out the car has been fine)

If we can get one, with the help of Justin, we can test fit it in my car see if we can figure out any clearance problems. We could also use the LIM off the G to see if it helps. Then if all of the boltholes line up and we get the car running we’ll have something to work with. If there’s still a clearance problem we’ll be able to give Kinetix our measurements and see if they can fab one to fit.

Now I do have a few questions.
1. Will this cause a problem with the ECU? i.e. won’t it be looking for the VIAS.
2. If there is a problem how do we get around it?
3. Would we be able to use a Z ECU at some point in the future? With the VIAS being gone and with a car that has better exhaust flow would there be any other major issues in the two cars design that would make this prohibitive?


Lastly if after we get it to fit and work we could try and see if it would help Matt’s car out at all. He could drive down to my house or Justin and I could take a ride up to him and due another test fit and possible dyno. Even if the hood doesn’t fit this could give us the info as to whether or not this is worth pursuing. Matt only lives a few hours from us and his car has all the mods that we looking for to see if this is what will break Stumans “glass ceiling” 240whp.

I wanted to post this the other day but with the org being down…
Any thought comments?

bgates1654

Just like Maximaman777 said try it anyway. If it bolts on okay yet doesnt fit with the hood... take the friggin hood off Obviously it would not be a permanent solution but this is the way I could see it work:
1 Get a before dyno if you dont already have one
2 Attempt to bolt it on to the car
3 If it fits the engine reset ECU and start it to make sure there are no problems
4 Try to close the hood. If it does not fit remove the hood.
5 Drive it around till the ECU has properly learned the new parameters/dimensions
6 Dyno

We can worry about the hood fitting later. I am sure that if good reproducible gains are produced that the hood mod will follow automatically. If you are worried about potential damage to the engine/accesories since you have no hood to protect them I am sure there is a solution, but I dont have anything myself yet.

kcowden

iTrader: (2)

My Friend who has a 350 just got a Kinetics intake and it is SWEET! , and it's light as he!! I'll ask him what he is going to do with the stock manifold and let you know. Anyone in the VA/ Gettysburg, PA area willing to experiment???

Quicksilver

iTrader: (1)

I'll gladly help out with all the "fun". This is basically the same thing I did with my Dakota when swapping intake manifolds with the Jeep 4.7L HO version (and cams). The TB placement is going to be rather screwey, but I'm sure we can make it work. And if people can zip tie their VIAS open w/out a CEL, then why would the ECU miss the VIAS at all? Who knows...that's something we'll have to figure out along the way, I guess...

Chinkzilla

now we're gettin somewhere!