Rear Sway Bar options to Help Understeer
01-24-2012, 10:56 PM
#1
Rear Sway Bar options to Help Understeer
Obviously we own FWD cars and understeer is a big problem. I just wanted to open up a new thread so people could share what sway bars they have or most likely what they would like to have lol. This is a great site to start when looking to upgrade your anti-roll defense http://www.livermoreperformance.com/nissan_arb.html
Progress makes a really good 22mm, IIRC, and its only $200. Lets not talk about the merits of a sway bar and the increase in the likelihood of spinning out and keep it simply like or dislike.
Progress makes a really good 22mm, IIRC, and its only $200. Lets not talk about the merits of a sway bar and the increase in the likelihood of spinning out and keep it simply like or dislike.
01-25-2012, 06:24 AM
#3
^ Actually no, searching about sway bars on this site is one of the most futile things you can do.
That's like searching rather to get a 3" exhaust (Shouldn't need to bother, just get one) or not. TOO MUCH INCONCLUSIVENESS EVERYWHERE!
Now.
Killing the good ol understeer eh? What are your struts and springs combo? That can help determine a lot.
A evil cheap trick I did was delete my front sway bar and stiffen my coilovers up front and voila, the car turned in like it was a Miata!
Also read my little interesting diatribe below.
My white car has AGX's and I think ksport springs, I knew that when buying it but after driving it around I am still surprised how it handles almost as well as my red car on BC's.
Then last weekend I found out that the white car had a rear sway bar
:
Take that story how you want to.
That's like searching rather to get a 3" exhaust (Shouldn't need to bother, just get one) or not. TOO MUCH INCONCLUSIVENESS EVERYWHERE!
Now.
Killing the good ol understeer eh? What are your struts and springs combo? That can help determine a lot.
A evil cheap trick I did was delete my front sway bar and stiffen my coilovers up front and voila, the car turned in like it was a Miata!
Also read my little interesting diatribe below.
My white car has AGX's and I think ksport springs, I knew that when buying it but after driving it around I am still surprised how it handles almost as well as my red car on BC's.
Then last weekend I found out that the white car had a rear sway bar
:Take that story how you want to.
Last edited by aackshun; 01-25-2012 at 06:32 AM.
01-25-2012, 08:05 AM
#4
01-25-2012, 08:42 AM
#5
Learn to search foo:
http://forums.maxima.org/search.php?searchid=2282100
http://forums.maxima.org/search.php?searchid=2282100
The first few threads all have different conclusions on to get one or not.
NONE of them have comparisons of each brand.
Not very helpful information here at all.
01-25-2012, 09:07 AM
#8
Is a thread for that really necessary? Not much to compare.
01-25-2012, 09:11 AM
#9
01-25-2012, 09:20 AM
#10
Yea the search didnt yield much results. There is so much confusion as to the rear sway bar set up in the different sub models. The low end model(GXE IIRC) has one but the SE does not? Who knows why nissan did this? This thread was meant to compare the different brands because thats what the 4th gen section needs. Not just arguing on whether its a beneficial mod or whether your car has one or not lol. To me, the Stilllen adjustable bar looks like it would kick *** but by the looks of it, it would take some serious under the car time to make it work. and $300 for a metal bar? Those H&R sway bar frame bushings? look sick though. Whatever that is on the inside would make them last a lot longer it seems. Or it could just be a piece of cloth they charge for lol.
This one is "direct fit". Whether or not the adjustability even makes any amount of difference is debatable but it would be useful in positioning it right. The only brand that seems to make a thick enough bar to make a difference is LPI and they only "fit" the 3rd gens. Either way, it sucks for us 4th gen's as usual
This one is "direct fit". Whether or not the adjustability even makes any amount of difference is debatable but it would be useful in positioning it right. The only brand that seems to make a thick enough bar to make a difference is LPI and they only "fit" the 3rd gens. Either way, it sucks for us 4th gen's as usual
Last edited by ShocknAwe; 01-25-2012 at 09:28 AM.
01-25-2012, 10:48 AM
#11
Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 78
OK first off I'll admit I have no experience with front and rear sway bars. But, I have read a few Road & Track/Car and Driver articles where they were setting up a stock sports sedan or coupe with after market front/rear bars. They would make a change in dia. on the rear bar which would make a dramatic (scary) oversteer, then change the front bar dia. which would degrade the handling and/or ride in some other way, and back and forth all weekend long. They had all the different bars on hand to make the test changes. Might not be practical for the average dude to try and find that sweet spot with one bar, seems like a crap shoot. Way too many variables introduced with suspension and weight distribution IMO. And what is the effect of three extra passengers....
01-25-2012, 02:33 PM
#12
01-25-2012, 03:35 PM
#13
Had the Progress one, was pretty good got it on a Group Buy on here and got it for a crazy low price...like 130 shipped or less... and the website up LP racing its cheaper to buy direct from Progress...
01-25-2012, 03:55 PM
#14
Yea the search didnt yield much results. There is so much confusion as to the rear sway bar set up in the different sub models. The low end model(GXE IIRC) has one but the SE does not? Who knows why nissan did this? This thread was meant to compare the different brands because thats what the 4th gen section needs. Not just arguing on whether its a beneficial mod or whether your car has one or not lol. To me, the Stilllen adjustable bar looks like it would kick *** but by the looks of it, it would take some serious under the car time to make it work. and $300 for a metal bar? Those H&R sway bar frame bushings? look sick though. Whatever that is on the inside would make them last a lot longer it seems. Or it could just be a piece of cloth they charge for lol.
This one is "direct fit". Whether or not the adjustability even makes any amount of difference is debatable but it would be useful in positioning it right. The only brand that seems to make a thick enough bar to make a difference is LPI and they only "fit" the 3rd gens. Either way, it sucks for us 4th gen's as usual
This one is "direct fit". Whether or not the adjustability even makes any amount of difference is debatable but it would be useful in positioning it right. The only brand that seems to make a thick enough bar to make a difference is LPI and they only "fit" the 3rd gens. Either way, it sucks for us 4th gen's as usual
The aftermarket RSBs available for the 4th gen are thick enough because they are adding to the OEM one. I once had one on my maxima and I initially installed for oversteer. The tail was way hot. It may have been great for the track but dangerous on the street. I dialed back to keep the tail in line.
DW
01-25-2012, 04:04 PM
#15
If you were turning laps at Laguna Seca in a 4th gen you would need a rear swaybar just to tidy up the *** end due to the fact you would have a good setup on the front. For the country road enthusiast... planting the *** end harder would only exasterbate the understeer.
01-25-2012, 06:56 PM
#16
If you were turning laps at Laguna Seca in a 4th gen you would need a rear swaybar just to tidy up the *** end due to the fact you would have a good setup on the front. For the country road enthusiast... planting the *** end harder would only exasterbate the understeer.
01-25-2012, 07:32 PM
#17
Larso is right to a point but really the options for us don't vary to much, all about the same thickness and essentially the same shape except for the adjustable Stillen. A rear sway bar isn't really necessary and it certainly can make it it dangerous when the roads are wet but then again if your jerky through the corners anyways then you could spin out without it. I think I will def try one. The solid rear axel does have a sway bar effect on its own.
01-26-2012, 04:47 AM
#20
All 4th gens have a front and rear sway bar OEM. The rear sway bar is inside the multi link beam. Suspensionwise, the SE is the same as the GLE/GXE except stiffer rear springs on the SE.
The aftermarket RSBs available for the 4th gen are thick enough because they are adding to the OEM one. I once had one on my maxima and I initially installed for oversteer. The tail was way hot. It may have been great for the track but dangerous on the street. I dialed back to keep the tail in line.
DW
The aftermarket RSBs available for the 4th gen are thick enough because they are adding to the OEM one. I once had one on my maxima and I initially installed for oversteer. The tail was way hot. It may have been great for the track but dangerous on the street. I dialed back to keep the tail in line.
DW
01-26-2012, 06:00 AM
#21
WTF are you talking about??????? 4th and 5th are soild rear beams not IRS and neither come with rear Oem swaybars......The 3rd comes with F/R swaybars but that thick frontbar is a tubular design it's hollow dude!....Anyway my 5.5th has an ADDCO/Progress Hybrid swaybar: Addco bar with Superior Progress Tech hardware.....and supplemented by Illumina/Progress suspension and 245/40/18 tires really helps this thing handle really flat and pretty close to neutral!
Try again, cmax.
DW
01-26-2012, 07:26 AM
#22
Member who somehow became The President of The SE-L Club
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Posts: 16,033
IMHO - Sport springs & good firm shocks is all you need in the rear of our cars. Anything else is just over kill and actually degrades the ride and handling. There have been many reports of guys losing the rear end suddenly around sweepers because of the addition of an a/m rear sway bar. When the rear handling becomes unpredictable, it's not a good setup.
01-26-2012, 07:45 AM
#23
The rear beam in itself is an anti sway device. The larger diameter round bar down the center of the beam makes it even more rigid. The beam is a U shape, when the car leans it's pulling up on one end and pushing down on the other end of the U. The rigidness of the beam is providing the anti-sway. Installing an a/m rear sway bar tightens up the beam even more which provides additional anti-sway properties. However, your also adding more unsprung weight to the rear suspension which isn't good. The ride also suffers slightly & the rear becomes a bit twitchy at times (to tight) because it's bound up and can't flex. It behaves more like a solid axle when it's to tight and that's just not good at all.
IMHO - Sport springs & good firm shocks is all you need in the rear of our cars. Anything else is just over kill and actually degrades the ride and handling. There have been many reports of guys losing the rear end suddenly around sweepers because of the addition of an a/m rear sway bar. When the rear handling becomes unpredictable, it's not a good setup.
IMHO - Sport springs & good firm shocks is all you need in the rear of our cars. Anything else is just over kill and actually degrades the ride and handling. There have been many reports of guys losing the rear end suddenly around sweepers because of the addition of an a/m rear sway bar. When the rear handling becomes unpredictable, it's not a good setup.
I'm +1 for the twichyness and weird side to side movement going over railroad tracks.
But as for this spinning out nonsense? That will happen with poor driving skills and bald tires, those people would have spun out even w/o a rear sway bar IMO.
And yes the Rear beam acts as a sway bar.
A sway bar's job is to connect the two struts and that's EXACTLY what the rear beam does.
01-26-2012, 08:42 AM
#25
Well hrmmmmm....
I'm +1 for the twichyness and weird side to side movement going over railroad tracks.
But as for this spinning out nonsense? That will happen with poor driving skills and bald tires, those people would have spun out even w/o a rear sway bar IMO.
And yes the Rear beam acts as a sway bar.
A sway bar's job is to connect the two struts and that's EXACTLY what the rear beam does.
I'm +1 for the twichyness and weird side to side movement going over railroad tracks.
But as for this spinning out nonsense? That will happen with poor driving skills and bald tires, those people would have spun out even w/o a rear sway bar IMO.
And yes the Rear beam acts as a sway bar.
A sway bar's job is to connect the two struts and that's EXACTLY what the rear beam does.
yeah the rear beam does act as small swaybar and the that swaybar/rear beam is a understeering setup and my A/M swaybar neutralizes that allowing me to control my vehicle and not plow the front wheels......The OP must have problems with several things if they've spun a Maxima like you said ActionJackson, bald tires, mixed springs, faulty suspension components, and poor driving skills.....The RSB is a torsional device that reduces the car's natural tendency to understeer...I'm on your side Aaron!
Last edited by CMax03; 01-26-2012 at 08:45 AM.
01-26-2012, 09:00 AM
#26
yeah the rear beam does act as small swaybar and the that swaybar/rear beam is a understeering setup and my A/M swaybar neutralizes that allowing me to control my vehicle and not plow the front wheels......The OP must have problems with several things if they've spun a Maxima like you said ActionJackson, bald tires, mixed springs, faulty suspension components, and poor driving skills.....The RSB is a torsional device that reduces the car's natural tendency to understeer...I'm on your side Aaron!The point of this thread was to hopefully get some sway bar comparisons and opinions here but because 4th gen section on the org....... we get nada.
01-26-2012, 12:50 PM
#27
Well hrmmmmm....
I'm +1 for the twichyness and weird side to side movement going over railroad tracks.
But as for this spinning out nonsense? That will happen with poor driving skills and bald tires, those people would have spun out even w/o a rear sway bar IMO.
And yes the Rear beam acts as a sway bar.
A sway bar's job is to connect the two struts and that's EXACTLY what the rear beam does.
I'm +1 for the twichyness and weird side to side movement going over railroad tracks.
But as for this spinning out nonsense? That will happen with poor driving skills and bald tires, those people would have spun out even w/o a rear sway bar IMO.
And yes the Rear beam acts as a sway bar.
A sway bar's job is to connect the two struts and that's EXACTLY what the rear beam does.
01-26-2012, 01:04 PM
#28
Panhard + Coilovers = your answer.
Or if you're like me.... Coilovers until you can afford the Panhard.
Because my white car has... Adjustable struts, drop springs, and a rear sway and it ALMOST handles as well as my Red car on BC's, which in the end the springs, struts, rsb cost more than my coilovers
01-26-2012, 01:29 PM
#29
i've had both the stillen and progress/addco (if my memory serves me correctly the progress/addco bar are one and the same).
didn't notice any difference between the two on the road course, though those two cars were on different suspension setups and i road coursed them years apart. i had the stillen on road courses from 2001-2004 with ground controls and AGX, and the progress from 2008-2010 on Ksports with two different rear spring rates.
didn't notice any difference between the two on the road course, though those two cars were on different suspension setups and i road coursed them years apart. i had the stillen on road courses from 2001-2004 with ground controls and AGX, and the progress from 2008-2010 on Ksports with two different rear spring rates.
01-26-2012, 04:48 PM
#30
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 10,349
01-27-2012, 08:46 AM
#31
If you want flat out bawls to da wall handling....
Panhard + Coilovers = your answer.
Or if you're like me.... Coilovers until you can afford the Panhard.
Because my white car has... Adjustable struts, drop springs, and a rear sway and it ALMOST handles as well as my Red car on BC's, which in the end the springs, struts, rsb cost more than my coilovers
Panhard + Coilovers = your answer.
Or if you're like me.... Coilovers until you can afford the Panhard.
Because my white car has... Adjustable struts, drop springs, and a rear sway and it ALMOST handles as well as my Red car on BC's, which in the end the springs, struts, rsb cost more than my coilovers
Do it right, or don't do it at all.
question, whats a panhard?...
01-27-2012, 09:02 AM
#32
Yea the point of this thread was to get comparisons and likes and dislikes. The sway bar help/hurt debate will go on forever. The fact is it helps if you use it right and you know what the point of a sway bar is. Lets be honest, almost every suspension mod you do to the car changes the original geometry and most likely makes it a pain on long trips. For those of us who like to track out cars and take them to the limits that they are capable of then a rear sway bar is an option. The stock set-up has more body roll than most even with the solid axel and rear "sway bar" if you can call it that. Im still not sure that was Nissans intention in putting it there. I still think the Stillen would be best suited
01-27-2012, 09:06 AM
#33
If you wheels move forward and backwards, or side to side this is a bad thing performance wise. A Panhard rod is designed to prevent lateral movement. Its pretty simple consisting of a rigid bar running across the axle, connecting one end of the axle to the chassis on the opposite side of the vehicle. Once again one of those simple things they charge out the *** for. Viable options for our car are few and far between.
01-27-2012, 09:16 AM
#34
01-27-2012, 10:55 AM
#35
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 10,349
Ask anyone on here (that knows what they're talking about) that has had spring/struts and coilovers. About 99% of them wished they picked the coilover's first.
01-27-2012, 11:59 AM
#36
rear sway bar makes way more difference than a rear strut bar does.
01-27-2012, 01:03 PM
#37
I drove my red max (and will still drive it) 2x a year to KS. and I enjoy hitting up the local road course 2x a month when I can afford to.
Whenever I mod my vehicle I ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS factor in the daily driveability, if it makes driving 25 miles in traffic for an hour more miserable than it already is I just won't do it (the mod).
Seriously, compare the car to ANY mid 90s sedan, the Maxima will be in the top 5 in the performance category.
The only cars that can give it a run for it's money off the lot back then were Acura Legends (good overall car, should take the max in all departments), Saab 9k Aero (rapes in the straight line, but sucks around corners stock), BMW 540 (straight line only, very sloppy handling stock) and maybe a Volvo I'm forgetting about.
The SHO lost it's glory after the fugly round boat redesign (I'm sure they gave up because the VE bashed it's brains in), I can go on and on why the 4th gen max is a great car... Why the fck do you think I own 2
Don't you dare go knocking on my scott russel linkage. Solid Rear Beams till I D.I.E.Look at it this way. If you decide that you ever want to pick up some springs, struts, strut mounts, etc., you can spend the same amount of money getting coilovers. Ride height is adjustable, so if you want to play with the look of your ride, you can. You can also adjust the dampening so you can get it to ride Cadillac smooth or like a dump truck. You have versatile ride height and dampening settings, where as a spring/strut combo isn't. You're stuck with what you got if you don't like it.
Ask anyone on here (that knows what they're talking about) that has had spring/struts and coilovers. About 99% of them wished they picked the coilover's first.
Ask anyone on here (that knows what they're talking about) that has had spring/struts and coilovers. About 99% of them wished they picked the coilover's first.
This.
But that doesn't mean a Rear Strut bar is useless....
Last edited by aackshun; 01-27-2012 at 01:05 PM.
01-27-2012, 01:29 PM
#38
DW
01-27-2012, 02:08 PM
#39
I swear by AGX's. They've been around for so long for a reason. You don't upgrade your struts and then complain about it being stiffer. Some people dont like them and thats fine too. Fact is, they perform when you need them too.
01-27-2012, 02:13 PM
#40
Lol Solid beam has its advantages and it disadvantages. If I had a choice I would find a way to make it independent rear. Lots of custom work but its possible on the 4th thats for sure.
I swear by AGX's. They've been around for so long for a reason. You don't upgrade your struts and then complain about it being stiffer. Some people dont like them and thats fine too. Fact is, they perform when you need them too.
I swear by AGX's. They've been around for so long for a reason. You don't upgrade your struts and then complain about it being stiffer. Some people dont like them and thats fine too. Fact is, they perform when you need them too.
They've been around because of what they offer for the price, good deal.
But in comparison to my BC's..... Nope not even holding a light to it in the comfort dept.