ShocknAwe

iTrader: (3)

I still refuse to make the switch to CO's. When they come down in price then Ill jump. I got good deals on my AGX's and GC sleeves. I just dont like spending over $500 on any one product. Except for my Vortech v2....which is understandable

ampire

iTrader: (12)

These cars oversteer more than they understeer in my opinion. A lot of this is because the rear beam adds a lot of stiffness like a thick swaybar would. Best thing you could do for your car is better tires, shocks, springs, polyurethane bushings (like energy suspension) and subframe connectors (if you have the money for it). I had a ll of those except the subframe connectors and the car handled better than my mustang does with the mustang's stock suspension and my friend's legacy 2.5 gt also on stock suspension, but both with aftermarket hp tunes.

aackshun

iTrader: (3)

but you understand in doing that you spent MORE than you would have with coilovers right?

I mean I see your logic... but I just want you to understand that.

Also if you want the most out of your S/C I would suggest getting custom spring coilovers. If you don't know why you need to really need to take a step back and plan out your thoughts on getting a S/C and boosting you car.



Finally, someone who thinks like me.

May you carry on the VQ30 torch please?

CMax03

iTrader: (3)

I'm with you on that as well....I'll stick to a performance strut/spring for street performance....

I know these cars are setup to understeeer....they only oversterr if you lift throttle in a very high speed turn or pull your E-brake! I personally don't know any FWD platforms that oversteer period! Oversteer (rearend swinging around in a turn)...I know not! Car makers send most cars out to the public with understeering qualities, it's safer for the masses....

ampire

iTrader: (12)

I would but the damn thing got wrecked exactly a year ago. also no vq30 torch... vq35 with vq30 timing torch plz



They are super easy to spin the rear out on when your rear is stiff enough. I think I left my tokicos at 4 out of 5 the time I had them. Thing was more oversteer than understeer prone, even though it was FWD. I could kick the rear out going around corners without any effort.

ShocknAwe

iTrader: (3)

I saved money even getting $600 dollar CO's. I think there is more to our suspension than CO's which is all the 4th gen forum seems to think matters. I mean honestly? you could keep the stock SE suspension(assuming your struts arent blown) and swap out all the bushings, swap out the sway bars, some sub frame connectors and be in a really good place and keep the drivability of it.

The plan is still coming together as we speak. I might decide to be brave and post some more pictures soon but last time I did this it just attracted insults.

ShocknAwe

iTrader: (3)

So you could kick your rear end out? How would you do this? Ive never seen a FWD car have probelms with oversteer either

Quickywd01

iTrader: (16)

You're not driving fast enough.

MAXIMA_STYLE

iTrader: (21)

I thought his thread was started for comparison reasons and all it seems to be is a bunch of egotistical a$$bags arguing on whether or not we need.one... anyhow i have aj addco i beleve,it came on my car and is mounted properly and my a$$ end feels like a planted camaro in corners...progress makes a decent one too no matter the maker...a sway bar is a sway bar...like buying a fstb from stillen or ebay....no difference aside from price of course.

MAXIMA_STYLE

iTrader: (21)

I thought his thread was started for comparison reasons and all it seems to be is a bunch of egotistical a$$bags arguing on whether or not we need.one... anyhow i have aj addco i beleve,it came on my car and is mounted properly and my a$$ end feels like a planted camaro in corners...progress makes a decent one too no matter the maker...a sway bar is a sway bar...like buying a fstb from stillen or ebay....no difference aside from price of course.

aackshun

iTrader: (3)

Throttle Lift oversteer, if you knew a bit more about cars you'd know this.



^ This.

ThurzNite

iTrader: (13)

I'm glad somebody said it. Yes, at the limit, oversteer is there if you need it. If you watch the informational video from Nissan when they put the rear beam into a 3rd gen and compared the 2, you can infer they did it so at the limit, you can oversteer if you wanted to.

But for the avg modder on .org, they're not gonna push the car to the limit. So the rsb would feel good in street driving. But not necessary on the track. I never got one for my Maxima. After watching that video from Nissan, I figured out how the panhards work and used it to my advantage, which's what most of the serious drivers on .org did. You actually do want the rear to lean so the beam can do it's job.

Dr J

ampire

iTrader: (12)

How I got it to kick out? I took it around a corner near my house at high speed and halfway through I could consistently kick that tail out just as described above. I had the following mods:

3.5 swap, exedy s2 clutch, fidanza fw, es poly motor mounts, bushings, tokico illuminas, tein s techs, fstb, ws y pipe.

The suspension and bushing mods helped in the car being stiff enough it responded by kicking the back end out when I modulated the throttle. My car was also very responsive.

It tended to oversteer a bit when it was stock but often the body would roll over before it would slide.

ShockNAwe try driving faster

Quickywd01

iTrader: (16)

:metalmax:

CMax03

iTrader: (3)

I'm glad you stated that! That not stock! I can adjust in anything with adjustable shock/struts or adjustable swaybars....If I took you too a empty parking lot and we drove it in the infamuos ADDCO Cirlce (anyone out there!!!!) show me that you can oversteer that platform....I sure there will be plenty of plowers out there!

CMax03

iTrader: (3)

Action Jackson we need to meet up to do the infamous ADDCO circle.....

ColombianMax

iTrader: (7)

Ok so I'll try to be the first one to answer the OPs actual question...
Not really but I'll try.
I have a Progress RSB on my 4th gen which has progress springs on gr2 and it has made a huge difference in handling. I also have an Addco on my 3rd gen with STOCK sptings and gr2... It handles Bzolutely awesome while retaining comfort.

I dont think I can own a car from now on without installing a RST... I dont understAnd what all this dangerous driving due rsb is nkr where its coming from??? I've pulled some pretty crazy stunts and if anything, I think the swaybar is what has saved me mzny times...

Amerikaner83

iTrader: (17)

Bumpity bump

Addco RSB being delivered to my house today. I already notice a handling difference with my ebay FSTB around corners doing 45mph, I don't get as much body lean as I used to. RSB going in here in a few days, I don't expect too much from it but a little bit of firming up goes a long way.

aackshun

iTrader: (3)

You'd probably **** br1cks if you got coilovers then Amerikaner.

BC Coilovers > AGX + Stiff Springs + RSB

Amerikaner83

iTrader: (17)

lol

I don't want to be $hitting bricks anytime. EVAR.

And I am pretty much set on Illuminas + H&Rs, plus whatever new bushings I would need.

JSutter

iTrader: (46)

I used to have a Progress RSB. It was OK with stock suspension. Once you get sport struts and springs I feel it's a bit excessive. While it does reduce body roll, there is this feeling of uncertainty at the cars limits. The car feels so planted, you are hard pressed to realize when you've pushed it too far. It changes the cars tendency to under steer (plow straight through a turn) and swaps it for snap over steer (*** end looses traction and spins around) which can get you into trouble. Basically if you were speeding around a turn there is little feedback on when the car starts to spin and loose control. The back end can come out and thus causing a panic and hard braking which translates to more over steer.

It also adds some binding to the suspension which effects ride comfort. And any excess unsprung weight is also not really a good thing. Of course there are plenty of guys running a RSB and swear its the best thing since sliced bread. Maybe they like people behind them seeing a colorful bar hanging down, or they just want to brag about how flat the car is. Whatever, I just hope they know how to drive if they are going to hammer it around corners. I think it does more harm than good.

As for which ones design is better, tough call. Stillen's can be moved in front, under, or behind the beam changing how stiff it is. It also has adjustable holes to further adjust the stiffness. It also has no bushings which makes it more solid, but it can make some noises. The Addco and Progress are similar to one another. There are 2 U bolts and poly bushings connecting the bar to the beam, keeping it under the beam only. Then there are 2 more U bolts and bushings connecting each ends to a trailing arm. The U bolts which can be adjusted some what, just not all that much.

Amerikaner83

iTrader: (17)

I hear you.

I don't drive a car at the limits (daily driver), and I don't plan on reaching limits during normal driving. HOWEVER, I DO plan on signing both myself and the wife up for advanced driving / avoidance maneuver / defensive driving classes...the ones where you use your own vehicle. I'd like to see what the limits are...both mine and my vehicle's.

dwapenyi

iTrader: (3)

Totally agree. I'm on my 2nd 4th gen now and this time I wont do the RSB since I'm doing H&Rs, Tokico blues and an FSTB.

DW

T_Behr904

I just noticed this, and I owned two SHO's, a 1st gen 89 and a 3rd gen 96.

The 1st gen was a beast. IMO Ford underrated it's power at 220. It felt like it was more around 240 or more the way it pulled through the powerband up to and beyond the 7K redline. I revved it a few times to 8K, and it pulled like a beast from the 7 to 8 where I backed off.

The Yamaha tuned 3.0 V6 was a great engine. It was used form 89 up to 95. They should have stuck with it and improved it. Instead they switched to a V8 which was the new Duratec 2.5 V6 with two cylinders added, and an automatic only for the 3rd gen 96-99 models.

My 1st gen handled great. Understeer was minimal. Pushed hard into a corner, all 4 wheels would drift around the corner, but lift throttle oversteer could be induced. The car was also very stable at highway speeds. On a good smooth road, I could take my hands off the wheel and it would track straight as an arrow at 80 mph. Mods to this engine back then were readily available, and with an intake, cat delete and exhaust and the computer tuning that was available back then, it was fast. Ford advertised that the top speed was 140, but they would run 155+ with just an intake and exhaust. Not bad for a 4 door grocery getter that was designed in the 80's.

The 2nd gen SHO's were different. Ford was getting tight on money and the swaybars were mixmatched from the factory, both front and rear. You either got a spot on handling car, or a car that handled like dookie. Changing out the swaybars was the cure to this, which many enthusiasts did.

My 3rd gen also handled very well. That year, it had semi-active suspension. The computer would sense road variations and would soften or stiffen the struts accordingly. With a good set of tires, it was surprisingly good in a turn. Unfortunately, it was no faster than the previous V6 due to the increased weight and a 4 speed automatic. When ford introduced the new 4.6 OHC V8 in the Mustang for 96, the all new 96 SHO that year was "detuned" to keep it from keeping up with and outrunning the new Mustang. This was done with a restrictive air intake (same as the LX V6 with a small air filter and other intake restrictions, and conservative computer tuning, along with the restrictive exhaust and a soft shifting automatic. A V8 3rd gen SHO with an intake, exhaust and computer tuning woke it up tremendously. Mods to improve the auto shifting also helped alot. When our drag strip here was open, I outran many "tuned" 5.0 fox body's with it. One mustang had headers, x-pipe and 3.55 gears, and I beat him by half a car. After the race, he was shocked and demanded that i pop the hood to show him my engine since he was convinced I was on spray, which I wasn't...

Just thought I'd share my SHO experiences, we can now go back on topic.

T_Behr904

I forgot about this vid. Skip the first minute of the b.s. to get to the good stuff. Watch how when the car is driven around the track how it behaves. You can clearly see that the 1st gen SHO's were a really good handling car for it's time, especially for a 4 door sedan. And it's impressive 0-60 time for an 80's car is nothing to shake a stick at. Ford never did put an lsd in the car. It would get massive wheelspin in first gear, and with an lsd (which was available aftermarket by Quaife through the now defunct Sho Shop) the car's 0-60 dropped quite a bit.

Also during this time, the only other 4 door sedan on the market that was faster than the SHO was a BMW 540, which cost alot more than the 20K SHO.

Rods03Max619

iTrader: (5)

Cant agree, I had blues and Eibach and FSTB and Progress RSB wasnt much, maybe since 4th vs 5th a little different in the feel...

Will soon get another one and see how it feels with COs...if to much will sell to a local 4th gen or 5th.....

ShocknAwe

iTrader: (3)

I think they can be good on a race day thats about it. I just started the thread to see who actually had them

98SEBlackMax

iTrader: (9)

If you want to improve the rear suspension and overall handling of the car -

Panhard rod swap
Panhard rod swap
Did I forget to mention a Panhard rod swap?
Bend rear beam to 0 toe or a very slight toe out
Coilovers
Offset trailing arm bushings
Rear sway bar (in conjunction with an adjustable FSB for track tuning)
aluminum upper mounts with spherical bearings
RSTB

I have had an Addco RSB in the past on my old '98 and this current car came with a Stillen RSB, which I removed a while ago. With all the suspension mods on the '96 I didn't notice much difference removing the Stillen RSB and haven't used any RSBs since.

Personally I do not like a FWD car that is oversteer prone as it is harder to recover from, especially on the track. It is not like RWD cars where the oversteer is usually progressive and can be easily modulated with throttle and steering input. All the times I have gotten oversteer on the road course with the Maxima it is sloppy and not so easy to recover from, costs me more lap time than it saves. My stock '07 Frontier is more fun to drive on snow in RWD than my modded Max oversteering on a roadcourse.

Hey if you want some throttle lift oversteer without a RSB go with 1/8" ~ 1/4" total toe out on the front. Works pretty well and is scary fun.

The guys at 2JR that did the panhard rod swap on my car like having an RSB on their street and track cars. But when Joe drove my car he liked the overall handling thru the twisties as is. That said on tighter/slower tracks and auto-x I like how I can easily bolt on a rear sway bar for added roll stiffness when its needed. So for the '12/'13 seasons I am experimenting with an adjustable FSB and a RSB on the tighter tracks like NHMS and Limerock. Problem is all the mounts for my old Addco bar off my '98 are missing and I took a sawzall to the old Stillen bar my '96 came with so I could get the rear beam bent in '06.

I may just have to order another bar or if someone has those mounting brackets for a Stillen or the bushing/Ubolts for the Addco bar let me know.



The ultimate rear beam adjustable sway bar. Someday... When I get better at fabricating.

ShocknAwe

iTrader: (3)

yea wow thats set up in the pic is insane. Id love to drive that over a mountain

T_Behr904

I'm pretty sure you would drive it over a mountain...

Rods03Max619

iTrader: (5)

If anybody is looking to get a Progress RSB....

http://forums.maxima.org/5th-generat...b-95-03-a.html