Dave B

I was reading my October issue of Motor Trend last night while listening to the rambling of the Kerry/Bush debate and an article really caught my attention, the EVO MR vs the WRX STI. In the article, MT dynoed both cars on a 4WD Dynojet (two 2,500lb rollers) and the results were quite surprising and emmulate the 4th gen Maxima stock intake manifold vs the MEVI intake manifold. The EVO is able to rev out to ~7600rpms before hitting fuel cut where as the STI revs out to ~7000rpms. The EVO makes peak power at ~6400rpms (though it's pretty flat at 6200rpms just like the MEVI) where as the STI peaks at 5500rpms and dies off quick. Both cars make basically the same power from 2000-5500rpms (within 0-5 whp), but after 5500rpms, the EVO has anywhere from 15-40whp over the STI. With these huge gains after 5500rpms, you'd think the EVO would absolutely crush the STI however the number suggest otherwise.

EVO MR
0-30 1.5 (~1.8 60')
0-60 4.7
0-100 13.1
1/4 mile 13.3@102.2

238bhp@6400
248lb-ft@3750

2005 STI
0-30 1.2 (~1.7 60')
0-60 4.7
0-100 13.2
1/4 mile 13.3@100.1

233bhp@5500
249lb-ft@4000

One of MTs gripes about the MR was that it has a neutral 5000rpm limiter whereas the STI doesn't therefore they were able to launch the STI at 6000rpms with the wheels spinning. Granted the MR couldn't launch quite as hard, it doesn't have the extreme gearing of the STI. The STI actually requires a shift before 60mph and a shift to 5th just before the end of the 1/4 mile therefore adding ~.15 seconds in additional shift time and approximately .2 seconds in the 1/4 mile technically whipping out the .3 second advantage in 0-30 and 60'. The trap speeds don't lie though, the MR is pulling harder at the far end showing 2mph on the STI however this additional acceleration doesn't seem to be realized until around 90mph or so.

Now enter the MEVI vs the stock intake manifold (SIM). The calculations have always said the MEVI/JWT ECU combo would crush the SIM setup in the 1/4 mile. On average, the MEVI/JWT ECU is good for about .25 and 2.5mph, but the data gets skewed because many of us didn't own the JWT ECU until we got the MEVI. Dyno derived calculations of the MEVI/JWT ECU vs the SIM/JWT ECU still suggest the MEVI combo holds a .15 amd 1.5 mph advantage over the SIM/JWT ECU combo however no one has really proven this. The reason I brought all this up is because the STI vs MR is a such close comparison to the MEVI vs SIM. We also know that the MEVI trades off 10whp/10wtq from 3000-5000rpms for it's topend charge and the JWT ECU restores this lost power to SIM levels in the 3000-5000rpm range. The STI and MR make the same power from 3000-5000rpms where as a SIM/JWT ECU will actually make 10whp/10wtq in the 3000-5000rpm range over the MEVI/JWT ECU combo. Would the STI gain make some MPH if it actually had a stronger 3000-5000 powerband like the SIM/JWT ECU has over the MEVI/JWT ECU. What if you added an extrude honed SIM (gains of 7-10whp/10wtq from 3500-6500rpms). Calculations are great, but a real world comparison is rather eye opening.

I almost wonder if a SIM/JWT ECU/extrude hone intake manifold (~195whp@5500rpms & 205wtq@4200rpms) would actually post the same kind of ET as the MEVI/JWT ECU (200whp@6100rpms & 190wtq@4600rpms). After 100mph, the MEVI setup would crush the SIM setup, but below 100mph, I think the race may be a wash.

Maybe I'm just trying to justify getting rid of my MEVI

laylow1988

iTrader: (2)

you've just been justified now you can sell me your mevi let me know playa

chuckie311

iTrader: (1)

well i have the mevi on my 99 and low to mid sucks but out on the highway i love it. im going to get my car dynoed with the next few months before i go boosted to see how much of a differance the horespower is before and after the boost.i really miss my low end. im trying a new combo with the mevi i just got the underdrive pully and im going to try it out on the track to see how much of a difference i am in the 1/4 between the Mevi and the USI..

MomoMax98

i was gonna buy one till i saw the kid who got it dynoed...seems like the mevi is better for unoffical races on the streets...example.. u and racer X vs the state trooper/s....instead of offical u vs the mustang on 1/4mi track...guess im happy i waited to see results from it(loose butterfly screws...SUPER LOSS in LOW END..-$600 parts n labor)...still waiting to see sup wit the DR mob ******* the trannys up...

Nealoc187

iTrader: (23)

I'd rather run the same 1/4 mile times and have more topend than midrange power. I like the feeling of winding it out getting on the highway more than getting on it out of a light. Infact it's probably been 6 months since I've even floored my car in 1st gear except at the track.

Or you could just get the 2KIM and have the best of both worlds.

Abimax95

iTrader: (1)

Hey Nealoc187 sorry for the dump question what's a 2KIM ???

brianw

iTrader: (3)

2KIM is the 2000-2001 Maxima's dual runner intake manifold.

I didn't know Mitsubishi had made such drastic changes to the Evo MR vs. older Evo8's... does it hold 19psi to redline too, instead of dropping off to 16psi at redline a la the `03/`04 regular Evos? (I have no clue at all about the STi myself...)

Linkage23

iTrader: (2)

How available are the 2KIMs? Do any members have this installed or is the fabrication still in progress....I'd imagine that is not a direct fit...Nealoc187, how much boost are you running to get those times?!

Nealoc187

iTrader: (23)

Zero boost.

VQvroom

So what your saying is buy an EVO or STI instead of modding your maxima?

Nah, all jokes aside. I think nissan would have put the MEVI on the maxima if it were meant to be there. I may be dumb in saying that but my reason for saying it: the MEVI is a stock component, if they could have squeezed a few extra HP in by putting that on the car im sure they would have, after all its a HP race in the car market with all the makers trying to top each other.

Plus, everytime I hear about the MEVI its some big problem or complaint. Sounds like a real big headache to me.

DAVE Sz

iTrader: (2)

Wrong. Like it's been said a million times before, they didn't put the mevi in because of the loss in low-mid range power. This isn't Honda where they make their cars for the highway, they make nissans to have a torquey low-end pull for city driving.

chuckie311

iTrader: (1)

i agree i love the high end power this thing has its great when you are driving on highways somewhere and someone tries to pass you.down shift and floor it ..zooooom is all i have to say. i love it
as you see in my pic i love to drive fast when i can

Kevlo911

iTrader: (36)

I will be HAPPIER when I get 00vi, maybe in a few weeks

krismax

iTrader: (15)

My car has a exreme amount of low and midrange along with the abilily to spank redline at 8000rpm.The vi is where its at ,with every bolt on mod you want besides vi you will never touch my times.

In this wheather i can not hook up with these Drag radials even with a burn out. i can still run 2.35,s 60's at 14.1's and a 2.4's 60's can still get me a 14.3's. I think ive had a 14.4 1/4 with a 2.5 60ft. This 00 vi is king.

Dave B

I don't know about that because BSwithTF (Travis) replaced his MEVI with the 2kIM and his ETs improved by a few hundredths of a second, but his MPH were slower. All his runs were under similiar conditions, the same track, and similiar 60 foots. In the end, I think it's complete wash comparing the 2kIM vs the MEVI. Their powerbands may be shaped slightly different, but in the 1/4 mile there's no difference. Travis does say his around the town driveability is improved with better idle to 4000rpm throttle response.

Dave B

Yes please, I'll take an STI or EVO MR.

What I find odd about Nissan putting the MEVI on some overseas Maximas is that Nissan kept the stock 6500rpm limiter. Hell, they did the same thing with the 00-01 Maxima too. Like many of us have proven at the track, running the MEVI without the JWT ECU gains you absolutely zilch. You're slower in the first 1/8th and quicker in the last 1/8th. In the end it's equal so why did Nissan put this thing on some 4th gens if the car was no quicker or faster? All I can think of is it was for driving at 100mph+ speeds. Of course add the ECU and things change, but how much of that gain is thanks to the ECU. The first 300' of the race is where it's at. Gaining a crap load of power in the final 1/8th doesn't make as much of a difference as you think it would.

Either way, I still love that loud VTEC switchover noise and the smoothness of the powerband.

Dave B

A lot of us haven't stripped our cars to the bare minimum either. That does account for something don't you think? I'd imagine if Ceasar would have done DRs and stripped out a few hundred pounds, he'd probably be in the 13.9 range. We're only talking .2 seconds. Same with VQdriver who runs 14.0@98mph with a y-pipe, ECU, catback, and intake. No DRs either.

krismax

iTrader: (15)

my race weight is heavier than ceasars and neals . its around 3010-3025

krismax

iTrader: (15)

Also on the topic of drag radials i believe they take away mph and still on a bad run i run 98.50 MPH.
Dave what were your traps and times with the drag radials ,i remember you saying most of my 13.8 was from gearing and the drag radials . So then you went out and got them how did you do?
And i will run some T1-s toyos next year and enjoy my higher traps,and i will fix my Vi because i got those times with a faulty VI that does not open all the way

Kevlo911

iTrader: (36)

The 5th geners say, broken VI = 30hp+ loss. They have dyno's to prove it too.

BigLou93SE

iTrader: (10)

I think that I'll keep my USIM over MEVI, just because of cost. Also, I really don't officially race my car (a la the track) or on the street for that matter, but I like how the midrange torque is able to pull people riding into my car into their seat. I remember reading something on old school M3's vs. 325i's. The 325i feels faster (which is nice when it's time to impress without numbers) whereas the E30 M3 (utilizing a high revving, turbo I-4) was faster, but didn't feel like it. I think the question between USIM vs MEVI, is whether or not you want to feel fast, or know your fast. For now, I'll just take my feeling.

Nealoc187

iTrader: (23)

I don't know about ceaser but 3020 is my race weight.

Travis' car is only one example of a 2kIM car I think if more people were using the the 2kIM we would see some good times out of it. As we all know there are good days and there are bad days at the track. Maybe he was just at the track on a bad day. A different day he might have been trapping 2mph higher and running .2s faster.

People that say "if the MEVI was supposed to be on the max Nissan would have put it on there" are apparently forgetting that nissan did put it on there, in just about every other market than the north american market. Australia (remember the 35U manifold on the 2.5L VQ) the middle east, Asia, etc.

VQvroom of course most of the threads you hear about the MEVI are people having problems with it, people don't post and say "Hey my MEVI is working great today guys!". That notion is utterly rediculous. When someone has a problem, they come on the .org and post about. They don't come on here and post when their car is working perfectly. 99% of the problems experienced with the MEVI are not related to the design of the MEVI, they are related to the installation and add on components. RPM switch problems--Not the MEVI's fault. Faulty vacuum canisters--not the MEVI's fault. Wiring problems--not the MEVIs fault. Butterfly screws backing out--not the MEVI's fault (people failing to put locktite or enough locktite on the screws). Getting the picture? The only thing that IS the MEVI's fault when it comes to the complaints about them is the loss of low end and midrange torque.

I don't know if I represent the majority or the minority here, but when I open up my car I do it on the highway above 5000rpm, I sure as heck don't do it around town from 2000rpm and under 50mph...

Nealoc187

iTrader: (23)

The E30 M3 didn't have have a Turbo I-4, it had a normally aspirated I-4, 195hp 170tq.

chuckie311

iTrader: (1)

yeah i one of them who travels between ca,nv and az alot so i love the feel of opening it up on the top end on a long trip.

deezo

iTrader: (3)

That's one thing I can't complain about. Getting up to 80 when entering the highway has never been the same.

machinehead

I can deal with a slight loss in low end seeing how i have no problem breaking the tires lose by stomping on it in first. If you need more power, downshift!

BigLou93SE

iTrader: (10)

Yea, My mistake, I forgot about that. But the points still the same. Where the 325i had to shift, the E30 M3 kept on accelerating, where peak power would be met at a higher rpm, kinda like MEVI. The 325i with the I-6 had a broader torque curve that you could feel, but in actuality wasn't as fast as the M3. Thanks for the correction, I don't really know why I remembered it as having a turbo.

BSwithTF

iTrader: (8)

The low end with the '00 blows the MEVI away. Used to be I'd get 2.3X 60 fts. with some high 2.2X's on perfect launches. Now, the only time I see any 2.3X 60's is when I screw up my launch pretty bad. Don't know why I lost mph though??

2 Da Max

iTrader: (2)

500 dollars? i think ill spray

krismax

iTrader: (15)

I gained 5 mph on average after the 00 vi was on ,i raced with the JWT ecu and the best i could get was 96 mph maybe once.

Dave B

Now that's strange because 96mph were common for me (and many others) with the stock manifold and stock ECU.

ChuckDaMaxRider

Anyone know where to get a 2k or 2K1 Max VI? Sounds like this is the better option than the MEVI IMHO.

BSwithTF

iTrader: (8)

I recommend watching Ebay. Sometimes you can get the whole motor for around $400. Other than that, maybe www.car-part.com.

Having had both set-ups, the '00 is the way to go IMO.

iansw

iTrader: (7)

My MEVI helped me keep perfect pace with a C5 Corvette this afternoon.

<Of course, the 13PSI running through the MEVI helped.>

If you're boosted, MEVI is a must. If you're NA, it's about how you drive (freeway vs city)

mchne

iTrader: (3)

having an auto trans., I don't see myself purchasing a mevi anytime soon, so I just bought a Technosquare over a JWT ecu the other day.

I've heard the argument about MEVI benefitting autos even moreso than a 5spd because of the longer gearing and the tendency to be in those higher rpm's more often as an automatic, but I just don't see it. obviously, one of the downfalls of an auto is not having full control over when your car downshifts. because of this, I find myself in the lower rpm's a hell of a lot more than 5.5k+ (mevi power). infact, my car really doesn't spend a lot of time hanging in those higher rpm's, which take benefit from the MEVI, much at all... even on the parkway.

hypothetically, ideal highway situation here: if I'm doing 65mph, and I punch full throttle, the auto trans. ( most of the time ) shifts me to the lower end of 3rd gear. the low end power of having no MEVI and only an ECU really shines here, and takes me as fast as I'd safely want to go before really reaching those 5.5k+ rpm's that I would like to see if I had a MEVI.

the pros and cons can be argued in so many ways. good topic, though.

Dave B

This has always been my thinking with the autos, how does the MEVI really benefit them much below 95mph? With a 7000rpms limiter, doesn't 1st go to something like 47mph and 2nd to 85mph? By the time you hit the switchover in 3rd, isn't the 1/4 mile already well over? The time the 5 speeds and autos spend above 5500rpms is pretty minimal and even in 2nd gear. It's 3rd gear on the manuals which allow the MEVI to shine in the 1/4 mile. The autos don't seem to benefit from this in the 1/4 mile unless you've got really really short tires. I could be completely wrong about this though.

Loe max

iTrader: (6)

With the stock redline, 1st gear will bring you to about 47mph@6600rpms. With a 7,000rpm limiter, that should bring you do about 50mph. You'll benefit from a MEVI+JWT alot from a 1st gear roll above 35mph, where it'll downshift to 1st gear and be gasping for breath with the USDM and the MEVI+JWT will be singing. 2nd gear will bring you to about 78mph@6,600rpm or 82mph@7,000rpms. Basically, when you're roll racing, MEVI+JWT won't come in handy unless the roll race makes the USDM car downshift into an rpm above 5,000rpms.

deezo

iTrader: (3)

When your in second gear, the car pulls like mad from 4000 rpm on up. In second gear (If I remember correctly) @ 4000 rpm is about 60 mph. The car moves.

We definitely have to make up our 1/4 while in second gear. Just as you hit the end of the track in the auto, second gear is done and you have to go to third and ride it out for about 100 feet.

Dave B

On the dyno and without the JWT ECU, my car lost anywhere from 5-10whp from 4200-5000rpms. Not until 6000rpms did the MEVI actually gain power over the stock intake manifold.

Broaner

iTrader: (10)

Having the VI overseas makes sense to me. Think about a SIM max on the autoban or some other unregulated road over there. It takes forever to build speed past 80MPH. In Europe it seems people are all about being fast, not quick.